How to Check Your Cis Privilege
Also an early blog post here.
Additional note: This is applicable to checking any kind of privilege. If you’re called on saying or doing something oppressive – sexist, racist, homophobic, and so on – then the same principles apply. If an oppressed person tells you that you’re being offensive, check yourself.
Additional Additional Note: Teh Portly Dyke has a much more concise and generally applicable piece of advice.
Cis privilege: Being cissexual is having a body your brain expects. Being cissexual is having a body society expects. Being cisgender is having a gender that is society considers valid. That is to say, if you’re female and say you’re a woman, no one will argue with you, try to assert that you’re a man, or try to assert you’re neither. Plus, there’s always google.
Ampersand of Alas, a Blog, posted an article for white people, explaining how not to be defensive when accused of racism. In the spirit of that essay, I would like to explain to cisgendered people how not to be defensive when accused of transphobia.
I see this all the time. Someone makes a bigoted transphobic or transmisogynistic comment, is called on it, and immediately claims that accusations of transphobia are silencing tactics, or they claim that we’re saying any disagreement with a trans person is automatically equal to transphobia. This is similar to the ““you’re playing the race card” counter accusation, which is a silencing tactic:
Recently, I was asked by someone in the audience of one of my speeches, whether or not I believed that racism–though certainly a problem–might also be something conjured up by people of color in situations where the charge was inappropriate. In other words, did I believe that occasionally folks play the so-called race card, as a ploy to gain sympathy or detract from their own shortcomings? In the process of his query, the questioner made his own opinion all too clear (an unambiguous yes), and in that, he was not alone, as indicated by the reaction of others in the crowd, as well as survey data confirming that the belief in black malingering about racism is nothing if not ubiquitous.
It’s a question I’m asked often, and which I answered this time in much the same fashion as I have done previously: First, by noting that the regularity with which whites respond to charges of racism by calling said charges a ploy, suggests that the race card is, at best, equivalent to the two of diamonds. In other words, it’s not much of a card to play, calling into question why anyone would play it (as if it were really going to get them somewhere). Second, I pointed out that white reluctance to acknowledge racism isn’t new, and it isn’t something that manifests only in situations where the racial aspect of an incident is arguable. Fact is, whites have always doubted claims of racism at the time they were being made, no matter how strong the evidence, as will be seen below. Finally, I concluded by suggesting that whatever “card” claims of racism may prove to be for the black and brown, the denial card is far and away the trump, and whites play it regularly: a subject to which we will return
I’m not claiming that transphobia is identical to racism here, but there are parallels from one oppression to the next. One of them is denial when faced with the evidence of your own privileged actions. When people are faced with evidence of their own privilege, their first reaction is to deny it, and attack the person confronting them.
It’s a false analogy to equate manhood and womanhood to blackface, as if our gendered bodies are something we can take off every day when we finish with them. Second, you’re trying to appropriate racial oppression into your objections to transgenderism. Third, the blackface comparison silences trans people of color, as it denies their insights regarding race and gender.. Queen Emily covers this in more detail on Sexual Ambiguities.
Here’s my guide for cisgendered and cissexual people on how to not be defensive when accused of transphobia:
1) “Cisgender” and “cissexual” are not slurs. Many people who are known for expressing the most transphobic views in public, react very badly to the term “cisgender,” claim that it is a slur, that it is imposing gender on them. It’s none of these things – it simply means “someone who is not a transgender person.” However, saying that it is a slur is transphobic, because if “cisgender” is a slur, then how can you justify “transgender” as anything else? Imagine if “heterosexual” or “white” were considered slurs.This is an othering tactic – by claiming that “cisgender”, “cissexual”, or “cis” is an offensive slur, you’re saying outright that you’re unwilling to allow trans people to stand on equal footing with you. That you’re normal and they’re deviant. That you require the right to name trans people as other, but that trans people have no right to name you as privileged and oppressor. That it is normal to assume that not being transgender is the natural way to be, in the same way that not being gay or lesbian is assumed in straight society.
2) Breathe. Stay calm. Stay civil. Don’t assume that because someone criticized your action as transphobic that this means they’re saying you’re a bad person through and through. Your first reaction is probably from your defensiveness, not your brain. You probably should not respond with whatever first comes to mind. If you immediately try to shut down the conversation because of the criticism, you’re attempting to silence the person making the criticism, rather than listen.
3) Take the criticism seriously. Do not dismiss it out of hand, especially if the criticism comes from a trans person. Trans people tend to be more aware of transphobia than most cis people are. This is because transphobic attitudes are often a matter of life and death – the ability to find a job, get housing, not get murdered, that sort of thing. Trans people do not find great enjoyment in randomly accusing people of transphobia, and would rather not have to bring it up. On the other hand, please do not appeal to other trans people to justify your words.
4) Don’t Make It About You. The best thing to do is apologize for what you said and move on. Resist your desire to shift the conversation into a lecture on How Against Transphobia You Are or How Accusations of Transphobia Are Just Silencing Tactics to Shut You Up The subject of the conversation is probably not the many trans people you know, and your deep and abiding acceptance of their life choices.
It is a silencing tactic – playing into the idea of a “hierarchy of oppressions” – to produce your own oppression as a counter, whether it’s to say you’re oppressed too, or to claim that you’ve specifically been oppressed by trans people or trans allies. The point isn’t to bring in your entire history of negative interactions with anyone who was either trans or supportive of trans people. Rather, the point is that you said or did something transphobic in the here and now. That is not to say that homophobic statements in the past were excusable, but rather that all trans people cannot be held responsible for any negative experiences you may have had. Everyone should be accountable for what they do.
5) Don’t Make It About Your Accuser. Just as you shouldn’t try to defend how you’re not transphobic, you should not also try to turn the criticism around and attack the person who accused you. Don’t tell them they’re trying to silence you – they’re not, they’re trying to tell you how your words and actions hurt them. Don’t tell them they’re driving you away. Don’t make the accusation that “any disagreement with a trans person is labeled as transphobia.” None of these things are true, and trying to claim they are is simply an attempt to stop others from pointing out your transphobic behavior. This ties back into point #2.
6) Don’t Hate the Sin, Not the Sinner. Don’t try to justify your actions by claiming you’re opposed to transgender politics. Just don’t. You’re rationalizing your transphobia and imposing your worldview on trans people, by assigning motives and politics to them that they may not themselves have. Don’t say that the very existence of trans people is offensive and traumatic because they supposedly defy the idea that gender is a social construct, or something imposed upon you, or whatever your particular theory is. You’re not dealing with theory, you’re dealing with human beings, and their lives. To you, the question as to whether trans people have valid identities may be a matter of theory. For trans people, it’s a matter of life and death.
7) Let Occasional Unfair Accusations Roll Off Your Back. Sometimes, even after serious thought, you’ll decide that the criticism was unfair. Great! Now please let it go. Don’t enlist trans people to certify you as Officially Non-Transphobic. Don’t bring it up again and again, weeks or months after everyone else has moved on forgotten about the original incident. In other words, see point #4.
Don’t make an epic confrontation out of the fact you were criticized for transphobic statements. Apologize, move on, and consider the criticism seriously so that you can improve your thinking if necessary.
Final Note: This is a work in progress, and some of the rules are a bit close to Ampersand’s rules. I would love suggestions on improving this essay.
Other Final Note: If anyone would like to reproduce this, please feel free, but link back to this page and give me credit.
Final Final Note: If you have any criticisms, that’s what the comments are for. :)
Author’s Privilege: Just so it’s clear, I’m white, a woman, trans, lesbian, able-bodied, working class, 39 years old (as of August, 2008), a United States citizen, and do not have a degree. I am a survivor of both child abuse and domestic violence. If I have missed a privilege or intersection, it’s because I’m not aware of it, not because I’m denying it.
[...] I applaud with a hearty slow handclap, maybe you’d like to do a bit of basic google research on the subject? Then, if you still don’t agree with the method of distinguishing between, say, women who are [...]
Sleep Badly & Pink/White « Alma Cork
October 2, 2008 at 8:01 am
hey there,
I think your blog is awesome – can we cross link? I think our readers would appreciate it, I will add you now… at What’s Queer Here? maxattitude.wordpress.com
maxattitude
October 13, 2008 at 11:54 am
heya, i’m using a small section of this in one of my lectures – with a link on the slide, so that the students can come and check it out in full. yay for resources!
nix
October 22, 2008 at 8:33 pm
Oh, cool. I wonder which part. :)
Lisa Harney
October 22, 2008 at 8:35 pm
i used the definition of cis privilege, and the 7 points for dealing with being called on it – all on a slide. i also recommended ‘questioning transphobia’ as a blog to follow for further reading. so if you get some melbourne uni students here… blame me!
nix
October 25, 2008 at 3:29 pm
i should clarify – i just used the first sentences of the 7 points. also, obvs, i directed them towards writing on white privilege.
nix
October 25, 2008 at 3:30 pm
It’s cool as long as the royalty check’s in the mail. ;)
Oh, and thank you for referencing my blog as a resource. :)
Also, could you check out my brand new post about feminism? :)
Lisa Harney
October 25, 2008 at 3:32 pm
[...] resources from Questioning Transphobia: How to Check Your Cis Privilege and How Not to Be Insane When Accused of [...]
101 101 « The Czech
November 29, 2008 at 3:02 pm
[...] How to Check Your Cis Privilege [...]
If that’s what a feminist looks like… « bird of paradox
December 17, 2008 at 2:14 am
[...] How to Check Your Cis Privilege « Questioning Transphobia (tags: privilege lgbt transphobia gender trans beinganally) [...]
links for 2009-01-17 « Laura M
January 17, 2009 at 11:03 am
[...] I came across a response to Lisa Harney’s How to Check your Cis-Privilege (which I referenced in my last post) by a blogger called catkisser at Riding the Second Wave. [...]
trans-privilege? a response. « en.gender
January 31, 2009 at 1:52 am
[...] It got me thinking though: Why DO some people see it as a slur? This morning I came across an answer that kinda makes sense in a post on recognising one’s cis-privilege by Lisa Harney at How to Check your Cis-Privilege [...]
the awesomeness of having stuff match : cisgender and cissexual « en.gender
January 31, 2009 at 1:58 am
[...] The two assailants have been arrested but have yet to be charged with a hate crime. I find the delay in declaring this a hate crime reprehensible. Clearly the purpose of this confrontation was to demean and assault two human beings based on a trans gender identity. They asked if the victims were boys or girls and further touched them to ascertain how their bodies were configured. When incidents like this happen a strong message needs to be sent regarding the unacceptability of such behaviour. Fortunately these two men escaped with their lives but many have not been so lucky after confrontations with people that are determined to hate based in cisgender privilege. [...]
Trans Hate Continues To Lead To Violence | Menstrual Poetry
March 12, 2009 at 1:16 pm
[...] from Questioning Transphobia and can be found here. Here’s my guide for cisgendered and cissexual people on how to not be defensive when accused [...]
On How to Check Your Cis Privilege « Gender Revolution
March 29, 2009 at 1:40 pm
Just letting you know that I posted this on my site (http://attackback.wordpress.com/), crediting and linking you (of course). Thanks for a great resource!
Huck
March 29, 2009 at 2:26 pm
Hi,
I wonder if you would let me (try to) translate this in french ? (and post it to my blog, accesorily) I think it could be helpful, because no such list exist in french…
Elly Rouge
March 31, 2009 at 6:14 am
Go for it.
I need to put up some kind of notice that says you can use anything here with attribution.
Lisa Harney
March 31, 2009 at 6:15 am
Plus, of course, this is derived from Ampersand’s post about responding to accusations of racism on Alas.
So anyway, as long as credit’s given, yay.
Lisa Harney
March 31, 2009 at 6:16 am
Just letting you know, my blog moved. I still have you linked and credited for this post. Thanks!
http://www.gendersaurusrex.com/
Huck
April 1, 2009 at 9:12 pm
Just to let you know that I finally posted the french translation here: http://pink.reveries.info/post/2009/03/31/Comment-ne-pas-etre-sur-la-defensive-lorsqu-on-est-accuse-de-transphobie-un-guide-pour-les-cis
I tried to stay the closest possible while at the same time being understandable (since some concepts are not as widespread). (I thought translating was easier ^ ^)
Elly
April 7, 2009 at 3:29 am
hi i put up a link to this post over at the new trans 101 wiki (http://trans101.wikia.com/wiki/Transgender_101_Wiki .) please let me know if this is okay or not.
gogojojo
April 15, 2009 at 8:27 pm
Thank you for the link. :)
Lisa Harney
April 15, 2009 at 9:40 pm
I just wanted to drop in and say thanks for doing such awesome work, and in particular for this list. I am gay, but had no idea how ignorant I really am on trans issues until being introduced to your site. I know I’m still nowhere near a place where I can comment productively on much that is discussed here, but you can count on me lurking and learning.
I am really disappointed at the lack of trans literature out there (I am a ravenous reader). I’m also really disappointed in the various manifestations of transphobia in the (particularly radical) feminist and the LGB community.
I hope I can be a good ally yet.
Thanks again for being awesome-
julian
April 22, 2009 at 5:49 pm
Thanks for dropping by, Julian.
You raise a good point about literature – there is some writing, but stuff from a trans perspective is pretty limited (or autobiographical and idealized).
Lisa Harney
April 22, 2009 at 5:56 pm
[...] you identify as without anyone questioning or doubting it. It’s a tricky business. Not all cis people even “pass” as their gender all the time. It’s a very slippery concept as [...]
| xoros
May 3, 2009 at 12:49 pm
HERE.
This is what I was searching for… THANK YOU for such a wonderful explanation (both yours, Lisa, and Apersand’s).
melouise
June 30, 2009 at 5:42 pm
Ampersand’s- sorry.
melouise
June 30, 2009 at 5:44 pm
[...] An earlier discussion on QT explaining why ever cis person should “check [her/his] cis privilege” before getting all huffy after being told s/he *is* cisgender and/or cissexual and, consequently, is speaking from a place of cis privilege: http://questioningtransphobia.wordpress.com/how-to-check-your-cis-privilege/ [...]
Resources on cisgender, cissexual and cis privilege « Living My Life
July 1, 2009 at 8:27 am
To be honest I think this, as a whole, comes across as over sensitive and overly accusatory. There seems to be an assumption, for example, that any explanation a cisgender person gives is justifying and making excuses, when in fact they may just be explaining. On the flip side, there also seems to be an assumption that trans people will never use words manipulatively – and of course some will, because they’re human, and flawed, just like everyone else. For example, you said:
‘Don’t tell them they’re trying to silence you – they’re not, they’re trying to tell you how your words and actions hurt them.’
Not everything that hurts someone’s feeling stems from phobia/fear. Ignorance is not transphobia (though it may cause it). Sometimes people speak in ignorance or from lack of experience and for their words to be labeled as transphobia is harsh and puts up an immediate barrier to them learning and coming to understand how they are mistaken or have been tactless or insensitive.
It’s not enough to say ‘don’t get defensive’. To be wrongly accused of transphobia IS going to make someone defensive. Even when a cisgender person is actually wrongfully accused, you’ve advised them to apologise. Why should they?
In short, I think this would be a more effective essay if it focused more on getting people to stop and consider their words from someone else’s perspective, to really listen, and to ask questions (or research later) if they genuinely do not understand why what they said was offensive.
I think #1 and #3 are really good points. In relation to #3, the point that these issues can literally be life and death for trans people is something that really needs to be understood and said. The rest sounds like it was written to people who have been willfully careless (or worse) in how they have treated trans people and then argued that they’ve done nothing wrong. But an essay on ‘cisgender privilege’ is going to draw a wider readership than that, and this essay (as it is now) definitely shouldn’t be aimed at people who at heart are kind and potential trans allies, but just don’t know enough about trans people yet to get it right.
chosha
July 7, 2009 at 12:21 pm
Oversensitive? Really? And Overly accusatory?
The original writer, whom I mainly paraphrased, is a cis white man, by the way. Most of the points are rephrased versions of his “how not to go insane when accused of racism.” It’s linked in the post, and I’d appreciate it if you read it as well.
Anyway, here’s the problem with cis people getting defensive when they’re called out on transphobia:
* What they said or did just hurt someone. And it’s more than feelings, it’s the idea that it’s okay to say hurtful and prejudiced things about trans people without accountability.
* Defensiveness is an attempt to defend that lack of accountability.
* The reason that line about “even if you’re wrong” is that cis people are not better judges of transphobia than trans people. Focusing on the idea that someone can be wrongly called out for transphobia and that it’s okay for cis people to decide which is right and which is wrong has the logical end result which is also the current status quo: That all attempts to call out transphobia are actually wrong, and that trans people are too oversensitive and accusatory.
This essay isn’t about getting people to stop and reconsider their words from another person’s perspective. That can come after. This is about getting people to stop saying hurtful, bigoted things and at believe this is the case when told they’re saying hurtful bigoted things.
It’s like, if you stepped on someone’s foot and they cried out in pain, would you argue over whether you really meant to step on their foot, whether you actually stepped on their foot at all, whether the stepping should hurt as much as they said it did, or would you apologize and move on?
This is about acknowledging that you stepped on someone’s foot, caused them pain, apologizing and moving on. This whole blog has multiple other articles about seeing things from other people’s perspective and the like.
And, bluntly, a lot of people who want to be trans allies do fail to get it right, and often spend more time defending how they’re getting it right while they’re getting it downright wrong. It’s really exciting to get into an argument with a cis person who’s also an activist for trans issues, who says one transphobic thing after another and then complains about “political correctness” and “being silenced” when you say “That thing you just said was offensive.”
Also, this article is not about “How oppressed people can emotionally manipulate the oppressor’s guilty conscience.”
Lisa Harney
July 7, 2009 at 5:38 pm
And, okay, I will address the notion of oppressed people manipulating oppressor guilt:
The problem with bringing this up isn’t that it never happens. The problem with bringing this up is the same as the problem of cis people deciding whether they were really transphobic – once the idea’s out there, then of course cis people can and will use that as another reason to dismiss this stuff. If I say “What you just said was transphobic and offensive,” the cis person I say this to may simply accuse me of being emotionally manipulative.
Not to say that either the “you’re wrong” or “you’re trying to manipulate me” reactions don’t already happen, but generally speaking, in my experience, those are defensive reactions, not considered analyses of what happened.
Lisa Harney
July 7, 2009 at 5:46 pm
It’s so tempting to think that right thought leads to right action in an easy way – that if I recognize the general problem of oppression and take some steps to put myself on the side of those working for justice, then nothing I do can be that horrible.
Unfortunately it doesn’t work that way.
Ceri B.
July 7, 2009 at 8:30 pm
Re what I said about assumptions, I think partly it’s just about the language you’ve used. For example, in the original version there’s a part that reads, ‘If someone has just said “I think that sounds a bit racist…” ‘I THINK that SOUNDS’…see how the underlying assumption there is that you MAY have said something racist? Your adapted version is, ‘because someone criticized your action as transphobic’. There is no leeway for the possibility of error. Your action was transphobic and they are criticising it.
And I’m not playing semantics. The original article has a completely different tone to yours. It definitely invites the reader to consider their actions and to listen to people they have hurt or offended and to recognise and acknowledge that person’s greater understanding of the matter. But it does it without sounding accusatory, because it doesn’t describe things in such absolute terms.
“here’s the problem with cis people getting defensive…What they said or did just hurt someone. And it’s more than feelings, it’s the idea that it’s okay to say hurtful and prejudiced things about trans people without accountability…Defensiveness is an attempt to defend that lack of accountability.”
Defensiveness MAY be an attempt to do that, but this isn’t necessarily true. If I personally got defensive in a situation like that, I know it would be because I honestly didn’t believe I was being offensive. And while I totally might need to calm down, listen and figure out if they’re actually right, apologise if I am wrong and never say or do that thing again, I have ZERO interest in not being accountable for my actions. It doesn’t factor into my thinking on the kind of situation you’re talking about, and I really don’t think I’m alone in that.
“cis people are not better judges of transphobia than trans people”
Absolutely true. That isn’t the same as saying trans people never get it wrong.
“Focusing on the idea that someone can be wrongly called out for transphobia and that it’s okay for cis people to decide which is right and which is wrong has the logical end result which is also the current status quo: That all attempts to call out transphobia are actually wrong, and that trans people are too oversensitive and accusatory.”
Firstly, I don’t think that trans people generally are oversensitive and accusatory, but I do think that the wording of this essay is in danger of portraying them as such. You see, I am reading this as a cisgender person – the audience that it is intended for – and I know how it’s coming across to me as the reader. The reason I’m contributing to the discussion is not to be the cis person telling the trans person what’s right and wrong. It’s because I want you to end up with an essay that will have the effect that you want it to have – to make cis gender people respond in the right way when told that they are saying or doing something that is or can be considered transphobic.
“This essay isn’t about getting people to stop and reconsider their words from another person’s perspective. That can come after. This is about getting people to stop saying hurtful, bigoted things and at believe this is the case when told they’re saying hurtful bigoted things.”
But it IS about those things. And why? Because the REASON people stop saying hurtful, bigoted things is BEACAUSE they have stopped and reconsidered their words. ‘Taking the criticism seriously’ is all about considering the tran person’s perspective and recognising that they know more about who they are and how they feel than you (a cis person) do.
I think you have to remember who will read this essay. And that would be people who probably want to do the right thing and are seeking to understand how to act in order to show trans people proper respect and support. It might be people who found the essay when they Googled ‘cisgender’ or were looking for info on transgender issues. Someone who is TRYING to be offensive, someone who has no interest in being fair or kind or respectful to trans people is NOT going to be on your website, reading and considering an essay on cisgender privilege. Writing with your audience in mind (which is absolutely not the same as pandering to them) just makes sense.
“the notion of oppressed people manipulating oppressor guilt…The problem with bringing this up isn’t that it never happens.”
Once I was talking with an African American friend (I’m white) about predominantly poor, black neighbourhoods in the US. At some point in the conversation she said that sometimes because of pressure for kids to wear certain things, some parents would buy expensive shoes, etc, for their kids even if it meant they couldn’t provide them with proper food. I was floored by that idea and expressed immediately how wrong I thought it was for a parent to put a higher value on fashion items that food. She became uncomfortable with this because we had specifically been talking about black neighbourhoods – she was giving me an example of the kinds of pressures parents deal with and I think had not been expecting my reaction. In order to shut me down, she told me that I was being racist, and that I as a white person could not possibly judge the actions of black parents because I had never experienced their situation.
I told her that this was complete bullshit and that it was in no way racist to say that a parent (any parent) with limited income should never value (or teach their child to value) a fashion item over adequate food/nutrition. In that particular situation I think I had every right to be offended at being labelled racist and it didn’t take much objective thinking for me (and her actually) to realise it. While it may be true that I will never understand what it really means to be black, that fact had nothing to do with what I said or the way I came to my conclusion.
chosha
July 8, 2009 at 2:14 am
There’s also the fact that someone who isn’t predisposed to thinking critically about these issues is more likely to think critically about these issues when they are confronted with them — and someone who is more hostile to these issues won’t be more likely to confront these issues.
Words and essays and such work on one level, but only one level.
There’s probably more to respond to here, but it’s late and I’m not thinking quite so coherently…
z
July 8, 2009 at 3:45 am
Oh, and your comment about parenting in poor Black communities — have you stopped to think that maybe you *were* speaking out of turn there?
Perhaps it is problematic for parents to value a fashion item over food, but you don’t know their reasoning. Perhaps they felt their children would fare better in schools if they weren’t picked on for their clothing belieing their economic status. Perhaps it isn’t really the parents’ fault, but the systemic nature of their economic oppression here.
Perhaps all the examples I listed were wrong. But the fact is you’re looking at the situation and making a judgement call with one perspective you’re used to without knowing what the other perspective is.
z
July 8, 2009 at 3:52 am
z: I don’t need to know their reasoning. Of course their children would fare better if not picked on, etc, but that isn’t a consideration that holds any weight against not feeding them. There IS NO consideration that would justify that decision.
Lisa: One other example of what I meant by accusatory language. “That you require the right to name trans people as other, but that trans people have no right to name you as privileged and oppressor.”
Privileged, absolutely. It’s inescapable for any member of a majority to deny privilege. But oppressor? Labelling every cisgender person as an oppressor not only negates absolutely the concept of trans allies, but also do you think it’s sound to equate the use of ‘cisgender’ with naming someone an oppressor, in the very same paragraph where you’ve just claimed that the term is not a slur?
chosha
July 8, 2009 at 6:55 pm
CHosha-
If you believe this “Labelling every cisgender person as an oppressor not only negates absolutely the concept of trans allies” then personally I think yes this is sound: “but also do you think it’s sound to equate the use of ‘cisgender’ with naming someone an oppressor, in the very same paragraph where you’ve just claimed that the term is not a slur?”
Trans ppl don’t need any more allies like you. You want to be somebody’s ally go put an ad on craigslist.
Estrobutch
July 8, 2009 at 7:05 pm
Estrobutch: What is it that I’ve said there that offended you? Is ‘oppressor’ not an insult, a slur? You honestly don’t think that being told that when someone calls you ‘cisgender’ that they are naming you an oppressor would make someone question the idea that the term is a neutral description meaning only ‘a person who is not transgender’?
chosha
July 8, 2009 at 7:11 pm
The point is that you’re viewing the situation — *any* situation wherein you’re not experiencing the other group’s oppression — through a non-oppressed perspective. That’s privilege. Refusing to consider that there’s any other perspectives is also acting on privilege.
I don’t know their situation, so I don’t claim to speak authoritatively from their situation.
z
July 8, 2009 at 7:12 pm
Oppressor is neither an insult nor a slur. It does, however, describe a cis person who is saying oppressive, offensive, transphobic things, whether they mean to be oppressive or not.
If you’re not doing oppressive things, then you’re not acting as an oppressor, but you always have the power to do oppressive things – and saying something transphobic and then getting defensive when called out on it is one of the ways that oppression plays out in social interactions.
Cisgender and cissexual are neutral terms, but you have to realize that being cisgender or cissexual is not a neutral position in society.
Lisa Harney
July 8, 2009 at 7:17 pm
If you feel guilt about being a member of an oppressor group, i suggest you work on dismantling the system that makes you part of an oppressor group.
All the time, every time. Ani DiFranco once said that “every tool is a weapon if you hold it right.” You can point your oppressor status at trans people, or you can use the privilege you have to call out cis people. Whether or not you’re an “ally” doesn’t mean shit, and it’s not your job to appoint yourself an “ally” anyhow. If you want a button, buy one on the interet. If you want real social change, join us in pointing your weapon squarely at the kyriarchal stucture and stop telling trans people what to do. Shut up, listen, do.
algormortis
July 8, 2009 at 9:49 pm
z: I’ve never been black, but I have been poor. I’ve also experienced societal pressure and the painful experience of saying no to a child who desperately wants to fit in because you just can’t afford what they’re asking. There are limits to the relativist argument and the human experience is not so diverse that people are incapable of analysing a situation every aspect of which they themselves have not been immersed in.
algormortis: I was born cisgender. I feel no guilt about an accident of nature. The application of the word ‘oppressor’ to someone who is merely a member of a majority is a misnomer, no matter how it’s explained in sociology textbooks. I am free to label myself as I choose and to define for myself what I consider real (and good) social change and how I involve myself in progressing that change.
Lisa: I’d reply, but there’s not much point. I am not trying to argue with you about transgender experience, now or in any comment I made. I have neither the means nor the desire. I was only making suggestions in regard to the language of the essay. However, as the comments get more hostile it’s becoming clear that what I’m saying is being assigned other meanings and is not of interest anyway.
If your interest in writing the essay is not to educate cisgender people but rather to simply tell them to, as algormortis put it, ’shut up, listen and do’, then this makes sense, because in that case whether or not your alienate them in the process isn’t really a consideration. The thing is, when you said that you would ‘love suggestions on improving this essay,’ if what you really meant is that you wanted comments only from trans people then maybe you should have clarified that.
But hey, I can’t get defensive, right? I’m cis, so if I disagree (about anything) I’m wrong, and presumptious and ‘acting on privilege’ and any attempt to support respectful behaviour towards trans people is merely an attempt to ‘get myself a button’. So fair enough. I’m out. Sorry if I stepped on your foot. It wasn’t intentional. And now I’m moving on.
chosha
July 9, 2009 at 1:01 am
Oh geez. Some people challenge your inbuilt notions too much and you give up?
You’re basically throwing a tone argument right there.
Someone said (I wish I remember who and where), paraphrasing, that being an ally is not something you do because you felt that a group deserved to have your support, but you couldn’t live with yourself/sleep at night if you didn’t give it.
z
July 9, 2009 at 1:24 am
There’s a clearly perceptible (to me) difference between communicating with a person, and communicating with a culturally programmed subroutine channeled through a person and using their voice for itself.
My experience is that interacting with a cultural subroutine operating through a person is like trying to have a real interaction with something that is not made to interact freely — like interacting with a character from a fixed script. The scripted character has a limited range of responses available.
I used to get so confused by this situation.
FWIW – or isn’t.
Michelle
July 9, 2009 at 1:34 am
I don’t think you understood my point if you thought it was strictly about trans experience (and for what it’s worth, I don’t identify as transgender).
I think the difficulty I had with the suggestions was that I felt, in discussing a potential (and frequently actual) situation in which a cis person makes a mistake and hurts a trans person, that you were asking me to take the cis person’s feelings into account. And I think maybe the point I should add from this conversation is about how intention isn’t the driving factor, but rather the injury caused – because a trans person who doesn’t believe you’re going to take responsibility for the pain you cause won’t bother to engage you at all. Just taking the time to say “Hey, that thing you said was transphobic” already implies a certain degree of trust in your intentions, if not your actions.
I have taken constructive criticism previously, and rewritten this (removed the ableist “how not to go insane,” for example. There have been other alterations as well, although I haven’t kept a record of every change and the reasons why.
Lisa Harney
July 9, 2009 at 1:51 am
There’s also a reason I linked the Glosario and Derailing for Dummies as well, which is that when you are talking to people who experience oppression, you’re also talking to people who have dealt with derailing, privilege-protecting tactics, and if your approach sounds like it’s being read from the derailing script, it’s a lot harder to take it seriously, unless you’re presenting an extremely compelling argument. That is, you’re not walking into a discussion without history, and you used words and phrasing that are red flags.
Lisa Harney
July 9, 2009 at 1:56 am
Lisa: I only thought you were trans because you identified yourself that way in your author note.
I’m not asking you (or anyone) to take the cis person’s feelings into consideration in the actual situation; only their feelings when they read the essay. Injury is a matter for the situation – of course it’s the primary concern – but are you planning to hand a copy of the essay out at the time? Probably not.
So what purpose does it serve if not to educate, to prepare people for that potential situation, or maybe even prevent it from happening in the first place. Intention is probably why they’re reading the essay in the first place. It’s relevant at that point, because if you make a reader defensive from the get-go, nothing you say after that gets through. It’s just human nature.
I’ve talked to a shitload of people about transgender issues and there are a LOT of people who WANT to understand, who really take it in and have that light bulb moment and I trust those people to transfer that into action when they meet a trans person or get a chance to weigh in on the making of relevant laws or some other similar opportunity to act positively. I honestly believe that reasonable people armed with sufficient information will make right choices. Maybe that’s naive; so be it.
z:
“Trans ppl don’t need any more allies like you.”
“If you want a button, buy one on the interet.”
Yeah, challenging of my inbuilt notions, that’s what it was. Not assumptions and open hostility. (And I have no issue with anything you said anyway. I thought your points were interesting, even the ones I didn’t agree with.)
I’m a trans ally because some trans people explained the way they have been perceived and treated and I realised that this was one of those situations where, once you learn about something, staying silent and not acting is like condoning what’s wrong.
chosha
July 9, 2009 at 2:38 am
Lots of carefully coded threats here.
“If you don’t do XYZ, you will lose allies, and that will be more violence for all of you.
I am an expert in what will prevent more violence and I am your friend (because I say so), your friend who is here to direct you on how to do it, so let me lay out my requirements here – for your own good of course, you can trust me. And if you don’t listen and follow my direction, you will receive more harm from the violent ones I speak for who really don’t want to be violent if only you do as I say.”
The nasty thing is: who among those unprotected can escape the existence and actions of the protected ones who act as agents of violence? Where is the option of saying, for real: “No, the responsibility is on you to act like human beings and stop with the demands and coded threats and the violence already.”
It’s not simple at all.
Oh this is so ugly to me.
Michelle
July 9, 2009 at 2:55 am
Michelle: oh for god’s sake, I’m not saying anything like that. I’m not directing anyone or making threats of any kind. I’m talking about how all humans beings work, or did you miss the part where I accidentally said a ‘red flag’ word like ‘oversensitive’ or whatever it was and everyone who saw it got defensive and CEASED TO REALLY READ ANYTHING I WROTE?
And tell me, do you see any ugliness at all in your attempt to dehumanise me by describing me as a “cultural subroutine operating through a person”? It’s actually a pretty good way to summarily dismiss without consideration anything I say. Oh, is this the bit where I remind myself that this never happens?
chosha
July 9, 2009 at 3:12 am
@chosha: That seems like throwing the tone argument at algormortis. You also mentioned about comments getting “hostile” and said you were “out” — still regarding tone. That suggests to me that, because people were engaging with you, criticising your arguments, etc., and they appeared to be hostile to you, you would refuse to respond. Perhaps that wasn’t your intention?
I think Lisa’s comments are pertinent here, so I’ll reiterate: “when you are talking to people who experience oppression, you’re also talking to people who have dealt with derailing, privilege-protecting tactics”. Can you consider the perspective of algormortis and other trans people here and why they are responding the way they are? Or is this one of the conditions where you say that there is no considering any other perspectives?
z
July 9, 2009 at 4:46 am
Chosha,
Transphobia is a cultural subroutine operating through a person. People take what they hear and how other people act in their culture and they repeat it without thought. For all your ‘humans get defensive, you need to be nicer!’ you seem to lack that particular bit of information. Not calling things what they are leaves a loophole that people will take if given a millesecond and a head start. A bit like you’re doing now with the tone argument, the ‘intent matters’ (which, not on the foot you stepped on, it doesn’t). If it’s not called what it is, why, the behavior doesn’t exist on a large scale and it’s not – really – a common problem that needs to be dealt with. It’s all subroutine, delaying Bingo! tactics used to not think about what people are telling you you’re participating in. Would you rather someone call your behavior an ingrained, culturally-approved subroutine or, on the other hand, that you’re firmly imbeded in what seems deliberate ignorance in your attempt to defend yourself from Evil, Mean attacks about your person wrt your behavior here? The shorter version is – You’re Not Thinking, You’re Parroting -. But at this point I’m pretty sure it’s willful, if you’ve listened to trans people like you said you have you would’ve noticed the multiple red flags (which are common to all isms, the tone argument and the ‘you’d have more allies if you were – nicer – in calling us out, particular), so I suppose instead of offhand comments it’s deliberate. In which case, with you, it’s not currently a subroutine, it’s an active and rather malicious silencing tactic, whether you mean it to be or not. Again, your intent means jack shit in the grand scheme of ‘are you hurting someone’.
A.W.
July 9, 2009 at 5:45 am
I didn’t tell anyone to be silent. I didn’t ask them not to name an act for what it was. I didn’t ask anyone to accept transphobic acts or attitudes. I didn’t tell them that the reason they don’t have so many allies or experience violence is because they aren’t nice enough. I’m sorry I don’t know enough oppression theory jargon to realise that ‘the tone of this essay sounds harsh and accusatory’ equates to ‘pander to the oppressor and beg them to pretty please treat you respectfully’. But I was never suggesting anyone soften the essay for any of those reasons.
What you seem to be saying is ‘why should we be nice to people who are transphobic and violent? We’re not going to sugarcoat it, because they are in the wrong.’ Fair enough. But that’s not what I was suggesting. All I’m trying, ad nauseum, to get across is that not everyone who reads the essay is going to be transphobic. But the essay assumes that they are, every single one of them.
If my comments offended you, if they raised some kind of red flag for you, if they sounded like something you heard sometime from someone who wanted to derail you, I’m sorry. Nothing was intentionally hurtful, but as intention doesn’t matter, I’m saying sorry anyway.
And z, to answer your question, I was not ‘refusing to respond’. I had been told to shut up and that somehow I had offended someone so badly that they thought that no trans person would ever need an ally like me. If I can offend or hurt someone so badly, while never writing a single thing that I considered harmful or transphobic to anyone, then there’s no point in me speaking at all. Not here anyway. I feel completely trampled. Just like I was meant to.
chosha
July 9, 2009 at 6:40 am
I’m a cis-person and I am transphobic. I do transphobic things. I act in transphobic ways. I’ve done it before and I’ll do it again. I know this about myself and my culture.
That’s the part you are missing, Chosha.
I hope you can hear and consider this. We are all transphobic because we are all part of a transphobic system. We are constantly taught that trans-people are weird, other, not-normal. That is not a benign belief. It as a statement about someone’s worth and value to our culture.
It bothers you to be called transphobic or to be considered the oppresser. It doesn’t bother me. I’ve thought and read and learned a lot about it. It’s my default position: oppresser, transphobe, racist, ableist, etc.
Once I accept that about myself, I can start making a difference. I can actively change myself, question my assumptions, make a real difference to people I care about who do not enjoy my privileges.
One of the very first things I can do is realize that our transphobic society has really crappy effects on trans-people. Our thoughtless actions are harmful and hurt actual people. That’s what Lisa’s essay tells me and I need to be reminded about this at times.
That is only the beginning of understanding the way this system works. It’s not that hard a step to take. I hope you can get here some day.
We need people who think and argue and keep hanging in there when we disagree or when things become uncomfortable. I see you doing that and I hope you will continue to do that.
Ravenmn
July 9, 2009 at 7:25 am
ravenmn:
Thanks for that explanation. I understand what you’re saying. I just find it hard to relate to.
After you actively change yourself, question your assumptions, make a real difference, at what point are you allowed to acknowledge that your ‘default position’ is no longer who you are? I’m guessing never. I’m sorry, and I do understand your POV, but I can’t live in an endless, pointless round of ‘how privileged and therefore prejudiced I am’. That whole mindset is foreign to me. I understand the concept of oppression of minority being manifest in majority assumptions, invisibility of difference, etc and I see the reality of it. But it also feels, particularly after today, like some fake construct designed to keep people ever defined by what they are not, and preserve otherness even while denying and decrying it.
Normal means majority. That’s all it means. And you know what, it’s actually pretty important for me to remember that my trans friends are not (in exactly one way that has to do with their gender identity not matching the body they were born with) ‘normal’. It means that I don’t trivialise their issues. It makes me stop and remember that I don’t really understand what gender dysphoria feels like. It is knowing them, and understanding that they don’t fit the norm, that teaches me that being normal, being merely the same as everyone else, isn’t important.
The key for me is not in denying difference, but in recognising that those differences never justify treating people differently. Trans people are still parents, employees, travellers, tenants, citizens, customers, etc, etc, etc, and in those ways they are normal. Or maybe not. But if not, it’s not because they’re trans.
chosha
July 9, 2009 at 9:27 am
Does anybody notice the difference in tone chosha adopts with cis women versus trans people on this thread?
I do.
voz
July 9, 2009 at 10:55 am
“After you actively change yourself, question your assumptions, make a real difference, at what point are you allowed to acknowledge that your ‘default position’ is no longer who you are? I’m guessing never. I’m sorry, and I do understand your POV, but I can’t live in an endless, pointless round of ‘how privileged and therefore prejudiced I am’.”
There is no default position, in that society keeps encouraging and reinforcing -isms and people keep having to mitigate and undo what’s constantly seeping in. It isn’t as if society doesn’t change, it’s just damned slow. It isn’t an either/or thing. I can say I’m racist, but I’m also working on it. Who people are isn’t static, it’s just a snails’ pace to get anywhere. It isn’t about how prejudiced you are, no one is tallying points. As for the word normal, it has several connotations other than majority tacked on to it, no matter how it’s used in everyday conversation.
“Trans people are still parents, employees, travellers, tenants, citizens, customers, etc, etc, etc, and in those ways they are normal. Or maybe not. But if not, it’s not because they’re trans.”
See? Double meaning. Not Normal tends to equal Bad. If you mean majority, say majority. ‘Normal’ is a bad euphemism.
A.W.
July 9, 2009 at 11:05 am
voz: Oh, is z cis as well? Because my tone was the same to them. I think my tone has more to do with who is speaking to me and who is attacking me, but feel free to make an assumption.
AW: I think I can work on not being racist without labelling myself as racist. It doesn’t make me oblivious to the influences of the culture/s I live in. But really it’s just a difference in terms. Ravenmn is comfortable with those words and she (? I’m just going by voz’s comment) uses them to remind herself to act in right ways. It sounds like you do that too. I find those words so infused with negativity that labelling myself that way feels wrong, like I’m saying that I buy into prejudice and actively practice it.
I definitely know that people can change. Last year my religious beliefs completely changed. Part of this process was getting to know trans people for the first time and realising that my church’s take on transgender negated their experience. It’s one of the things that made me realise that I not only didn’t believe any more, but that I also couldn’t be associated with that church at all and needed to resign my membership. Generally I agree that change is slow, but this one felt like a rollercoaster. :)
“in those ways they are normal” There was no double meaning here for me. I meant they are like other people and I didn’t assign a value to that. I’m happy to avoid the word normal if it has too many shades of meaning for other people.
chosha
July 9, 2009 at 11:58 am
“Label” is a fancified, snide word for “descriptive adjective (and some nouns)”.
There’s no need to “label” yourself with anything; words describe behaviour.
Dw3t-Hthr
July 9, 2009 at 12:39 pm
:) All the jargon on this thread and you’re picking on ‘label’? And snide to boot. That’s fantastic.
Label has a relevant meaning in that context. But then you already knew that.
Lisa: Good luck with the essay. Sorry this went off topic for a while.
chosha
July 9, 2009 at 1:14 pm
words describe behaviour
In my experience, one of the conditions under which the cultural subroutines I mentioned earlier can take hold of someone is through a pretty common kind of culturally constructed self.
This kind of self is very concerned with appearing to self and others as a “good person” — concern with internal and external image of goodness is vivid and active. This kind of self will respond to words in relation to this focus on image/goodness rather than perceiving and using words as descriptors of behavior, action, what is going on.
In my experience, there is a substantial conflict between use of words for accurate description of behavior/action, and use of words in service to the image/goodness goal.
Michelle
July 9, 2009 at 1:44 pm
Hey, you hit one of my cranky hobbyhorses, I get up and ride. And it is one of my hobbyhorses because, well, what Michelle said. I’ve run into a couple hundred too many people who want to whine “Don’t label me! Let me run free like the wind without being burdened by any descriptions! I resent your efforts to actually talk about what I’m doing!” to have any patience for that particular diversion tactic.
I’ve been sitting here reading along with my cissexual self and just cringeing at the tone argument stuff that’s been being thrown down. I would reiterate the recommendation of Derailing for Dummies, but other people have already, and far more kindly, pointed out the textbook derailing/ciscentric behaviour that has exploded in this thread, so my cranky bitch ass will certainly just get more, “You’re just not being nice enough to listen to.”
I can’t be the only person with bingo here.
Dw3t-Hthr
July 9, 2009 at 2:03 pm
analytic meta-arguments – arguments about the categories into which arguments fall or to which they can be assigned – are always ideological, and are thus always more satisfying to the ideoloque.
cigfran
July 9, 2009 at 2:18 pm
analytic meta-arguments – arguments about the categories into which arguments fall or to which they can be assigned
Hey, cigfran, is there any way you can give a concrete example or two of what you are describing here and its role in these kinds of discussions? I can’t get my mind to wrap concretely around what kind of thing you are describing with this, but my gut says it might be really interesting somehow. But I don’t know if or how and I am just swimming in clueless. Concrete examples would help, if you’re willing to share them.
Michelle
July 9, 2009 at 2:33 pm
I’m kind of behind on this whole discussion.
Cigfran, could you restate that? I’m having trouble parsing it.
I want to answer this for the sake of clarity: Chosha, my about page identifies me as a trans woman, because I’m a transsexual woman. While transsexual falls under the transgender umbrella, I think the label itself carries connotations that I don’t personally identify with – not that they’re negative, they’re just not me.
Anyway, whatever happens, I think I will be editing this post again in a few days. I do want to make some points clearer.
Lisa Harney
July 9, 2009 at 5:14 pm
Chosha:
“After you actively change yourself, question your assumptions, make a real difference, at what point are you allowed to acknowledge that your ‘default position’ is no longer who you are? I’m guessing never. I’m sorry, and I do understand your POV, but I can’t live in an endless, pointless round of ‘how privileged and therefore prejudiced I am’”
If you’re into being an ally in order to get that cosy warm feeling of having became a better person, you’re missing the point. You yourself can’t ever proclaim that you are better, for that would simply be the privilege you look to acknowledge at work. You can’t even use the proclamation of some group of minority members, until everyone the world over has got the message that you are such an awesome person – because until then, they will still live knowing that you are more privilege and enjoy automatic benefits they don’t. Ohwait, that means you can’t, since those automatic benefits don’t go away.
That’s what allies have to understand. You are either allies in dismantling the entire system, or you’re doing it wrong. You don’t get to be an ally and then tell the minority to play nicer. You don’t get to sign up just for the “gee, I’m such a nice person” badge and the hope of the minority being nicer to you. And most importantly, being an ally is about helping someone else’s cause, and it is their cause to lead, their battles to pick, and their war to fight. You get to join in, not play second-in-command, and the medals you earn belong to the minority.
A privileged person cannot not act on it. Yes, they can avoid consciously using their privilege to their advantage, but much of privilege is granted automatically weather we want it or not. When a white person walks into a bar and finds, as expected, there is a predominant atmosphere that is in favour of white people, that is privilege working.
Let’s not even comment on the whole silly minefield you opened by calling trans people not normal.
Squigglefish
July 9, 2009 at 5:19 pm
Oh, yes:
There is never an endpoint where you can automatically assume you’re past holding a privilege perspective. It sticks with you. There’s a reason that Peggy McIntosh titled her white privilege checklist “Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack,” and I think reading the introduction can help a lot in working through this:
There’s more to it, of course. One of the reasons it’s an invisible knapsack is that even if you acknowledge its existence, even if you understand that you’re privileged, you can still miss things, you can still let something pass because it looks innocuous to you, or because you’re still largely conditioned to see a system of oppression as individual acts that aren’t related to each other.
It’s remarkably easy to even “forget” stuff that you’ve already acknowledged. It’s also easy (and comfortable) when you’re in the uncomfortable position of being called out for making a mistake and saying or doing something oppressive to retreat into the general privileged mindset that makes it easy to discredit these arguments in ways listed at length in Derailing for Dummies, and as a bonus, you can expect other people who are like you to support you in that.
In fact, one of my experiences of white privilege is that frequently white people will step in to support the notion that something isn’t racist, and to encourage the person who may have said or done something racist to dismiss that they actually said or did anything racist, and the person saying so is probably just looking for a reason to be offended, or is racist hirself for acknowledging that race exists, or is oversensitive, or is reading too much into things, or can’t know the offender is racist because sie can’t read minds and see what the offender was really thinking, or “Well, you didn’t intend to be racist, so no one should be upset.” And so on.
I’m picking these examples because I’ve been on the privileged side of these, and I have played into those scripts, and I have called people out when they’ve played into those scripts. I have been on the receiving end of focused discouragement from apologizing for saying or doing something racist, up to and including attempts to define my own anti-racism as “white guilt” that “doesn’t accomplish anything.”
Kinda rambly there, but my point is that all of this focuses attention on the person with privilege (white in these examples, cis in this discussion) and what sie means, and whether sie intends or wants to be oppressive, and whether sie sees hirself as oppressive (transphobic or racist), which is another way privilege operates – by shifting the focus from the person experiencing the oppression to the person doing the oppression.
In this case, this is a post about cis people dealing with the fact that they said or did something offensive and oppressive to a trans person. Not even hurt hir feelings, but did something that actually attacked said trans person’s sense of hirself as a person, as well as a man, as a woman, as other identities that fall into both, neither or other possibilities. The point of the post itself is about focusing on the fact that a cis person has harmed a trans person and centering on what the trans person needs in that case.
Because cis people frequently pretend that what they say or do that’s transphobic as normal and acceptable, this essay is intended to decenter that, and propose that trans people are experts on our own experiences, that we can tell when someone is saying something oppressive to us because we know the dog whistles and the red flags that say “This person just said something that dehumanizes me and other people like me.”
So, while I understand not wanting to feel attacked, we’re already talking about hypothetical (although frequently actual) situations in which trans people feel attacked, and how is it necessary to center what happens next on dealing with the person who was actually attacked, and not on trying to assuage the attacker’s feelings.
Also, as Uppity Brown Woman said last year,
Lisa Harney
July 9, 2009 at 5:42 pm
(Also, if you are marginalized in one/two/n area(s), it does not mean you are marginalized all over.)
This is the difference between being butthurt, like our dear friend chosha here, and being oppressed, as trans people (tho not exclusively us) are.
It really says a lot that so many allies think and act as chosha does. Allyship becomes a cheap power trip where they enter oppressed ppl’s spaces, and play puppetmaster.
voz
July 9, 2009 at 6:35 pm
just for the record, I’m not cis. :)
z
July 10, 2009 at 1:38 am
a successful ally must also have a tough and resilient skin to sustain good faith in the face of neurotic countermeasures.
good luck with that, chosha.
cigfran
July 10, 2009 at 4:37 am
I’m not cool with anyone being described as neurotic like that, here.
Lisa Harney
July 10, 2009 at 4:45 am
Chosha:
“After you actively change yourself, question your assumptions, make a real difference, at what point are you allowed to acknowledge that your ‘default position’ is no longer who you are? I’m guessing never. I’m sorry, and I do understand your POV, but I can’t live in an endless, pointless round of ‘how privileged and therefore prejudiced I am’”
I see your difficulty here. I agree that acknowledging privilege is endless. Unfortunately, you believe that acknowledging privilege is pointless.
If you look at privilege as something to feel bad or guilty about, then of course you don’t want to do it.
You don’t get it. Seeing our privilege is valuable, not just for ourselves, but for the world. It means we see things that are invisible to others. It means we can develop methods to fight prejudice and hatred and choose to live in a more equitable world. It means we can put an end to the heinous tactics that people in power use to keep us divided and angry at each other instead of joining together to end the craziness.
If I do something that makes the world better for someone who is not me and does not enjoy my privilege, then we can do more good work together in the future. It’s not just about my needs and another’s needs. It becomes about our needs together. And it’s about the power we gain by working together against the ugliness this society tries to throw at us.
Ravenmn
July 10, 2009 at 6:31 am
ravenmn: What you wrote is lovely. It’s how I feel about supporting trans people. It’s how I would like to use my privilege, now that I even know what that is. It’s just not how I feel here. Here I read posts like the one from Squigglefish and realise that it’s not about ‘our’ anything.
voz: I came into this situation unaware of the theory that Lisa and others have now kindly explained. I even finally found the link to Derailing for Dummies (originally I thought Lisa was talking about a link in the original post) and I do understand now why what I wrote was perceived as that. Sorry all. Derailing theory is interesting. I see the soundness of the argument that runs through it, even while recognising that it’s also a way to say ‘nothing you think or say can ever be valid, so just listen and agree.’ If I’d been aware of this I never would have commented on the essay at all. From a writing perspective I thought being part of the intended audience was relevant, when in fact it’s what puts me on the outer.
But I didn’t know that. I didn’t come in here on a power trip or seeing myself as knowing more than trans people. I came in as a person who cares about trans issues, and on commenting all I was really expecting back was that other people who like to think about language might engage in a conversation about the essay, too. Thinking about the intended audience is just a writing technique. Again, no motive.
Everything else was new. Despite reading and watching many trans people talk about their lives and thoughts and feelings, I’d never once heard the word oppressor used by any of them. Or any of the other jargon. I’ve googled my heart out and I still can’t figure out what the heck the tone argument is. :)
What you’re describing, the whole power trip/puppetmaster idea, is so ugly, as ugly as the accusation that I threatened people with violence if they didn’t speak nicely enough. I can’t even approach that kind of thinking. But here people can because (as far as I can tell from the posts) most have fully embraced this oppressed/oppressor dichotomy. So of course you can attribute these horrible motives to me, because all I am is an oppressor and that’s what they do, so everything I say (stupid or not) is interpreted in the worst possible light.
And people want me to think of myself that way. Meanwhile the same paradigm validates the minority member and their experience and I don’t want to erase that part of it, but how you can expect me to embrace a pardigm that basically negates me as a person because of how I was born (and because of how other people in my society perceive me) I do not know.
z: I never imagined you were. ;)
cigfran: Thanks. I did all my crying yesterday. Too easily hurt, but it doesn’t last.
Lisa: Thank you for the time you took to write that explanation. It was helpful and clarified some things. Privilege is an interesting concept I need to think more about offline. I actually just came back to tell you that, but then saw the other comments addressed to me.
chosha
July 10, 2009 at 8:16 am
Chosha, you’re tangling up on some things deep in your assumptions. Let me point one of them out.
You refer to “derailing theory”. But Derailing for Dummies isn’t theoretical at all, nor is anything else folks are saying here about derailing. It’s entirely practical, the result of shared observations of how many marginalized groups interact with the surrounding society and how net cultures work in general.
I’ve seen that kind of confusion in your posts all along the way. There’s stuff you think about, and read up, and study…but people who’ve been living the trans life (in all its various manifestations) are telling you what they’ve actually lived through, and the patterns in their lives, and their experiences responding to them. They know things about transphobia that you don’t, and it’d be good to realize that what’s going on here is not an exchange of theory but an exchange of lived reality.
(I say “they” because as a very newly out trans woman, I have run into very little of it yet myself. A few instances, but none of them major. I am learning myself, seeing what the others who’ve come before me in trans and genderqueer experience have run into, learning what to watch for and ways of responding to it. I’m still doing exactly what I’m advising you to, setting aside speculation in favor of learning from others’ actual lives.)
Ceri B.
July 10, 2009 at 11:54 am
Chosha said:
The thing to remember is that people’s identities are complex intersections of many different characteristics. Therefore, it is inaccurate to characterize the dyad oppressed/oppressor as a binary in which one solely occupies one position or the other.
Lets use myself as an example. I’m a white transgender woman. Those three demographic descriptors entail:
1) As a white person, I’m part of an oppressor class relative to people of color.
2) As a trans person, I’m part of an oppressed class relative to cis people.
3) As a woman, I’m part of an oppressed class relative to men.
Hence, I exist at several intersections of both oppressed and oppressor classes. I have certain privileges as a white person and disadvantages as a trans person and a woman. Under the right circumstances I may (unwittingly) engage in oppressive actions against people of color. I can also be discriminated against by men and cis people. My status as being a member of an oppressor class does not make me evil. My status as being a member of two oppressed classes does not leave me immune to engaging in oppressive actions.
In one way or another, most of us have a blended potential to oppress or be subject to oppression. I find that it is extremely important to recognize that, under the right circumstances, we can all hurt each other. We are all capable of assuming the role of oppressor. Consequently, it’s crucial that we all be willing to put aside our pride, and our fears of “being discovered to be a bad person” and just listen. Listen to the concerns of those who exist on the other side of an imbalance of power, relative to your own level of privilege/social advantage. If we learn to do this on a collective level, hopefully we can work toward the possibility of not hurting each other so much.
All in all, the paradigm of oppressed/oppressor does not serve to negate you as a person. Nor does it serve to negate me as a person. We each posses the potential to inhabit either of those roles. Ultimately, the paradigm requires that we acknowledge that we humans are fallible creatures… Neither saints nor demons are we.
timberwraith
July 10, 2009 at 11:59 am
*sigh* That quote was meant to end with “…how I was born (and because of how other people in my society perceive me) I do not know.”
My words start with “The thing to remember is…”
Sorry, gang.
timberwraith
July 10, 2009 at 12:01 pm
How nice that Chosha, who claims to be a trans ally, has finally managed to learn something!
Unfortunate that such learning experiences for cis people always seem to come at the expense of trans people, who have to bear the burden, stress, responsibility, and pain of cis peoples’ privileged views. Especially those who self-dub themselves “allies.”
Caoimhe Ora Snow
July 10, 2009 at 1:46 pm
hello Lisa, interesting blog. I have a question concerning the many Transphobic blogs that have been extremely common in the last few months.
First I am more concerned about what writers post concerning Intersex and Transphobia. that is Transphobic comments, posts that Trans men and women assume are coming from the Intersex community.
Now, my medical experiences and family experiences are those of a intersexed surgically abused person and not those of what people expect of a Trans person. Yet I am still reassigning. I am Intersexed, regardless of what Gender assigning surgeries I have. I have never needed to meet any guidelines for reassignment, or gender affirmation surgery. They were forced onto me.
Now I do make some public video’s on youtube, they happen to be very monotone and nothing special, fact I think my videos are boring. Yet I make them so that people will come to understand how the Intersexed community varies. I am not ashamed of being an out open Intersexed person. I am not trying to Pass.
I do not assume Stealth is of importance to me. While it is to many Transsexual people.
Many within the intersexed community, are not fond of hearing how transphobic we are. the I.S. movement is much younger then the LGBT movement. But I do hope that all Transsexual, Transgender, Gendervariant people understand that Intersexed Activism is about Fighting for our rights over our own bodies that for 5-6 decades have been surgically abused to fit the two gender binaries that doctors say society accepts as normal.
Now Transsexualism, reinforces that two gender Binary. Intersex challenges the two gender Binary. I would hope that all Trans men and women, ie men and women due to the gender preference they so chose, understood that the vast majority of Intersexed people, want little to do with the Trans community.
Doctors have used the fear of GID, Homosexuality as exscuses to get the approval of unsuspecting parents of a newborn intersexed child, to get approval for Genital Mutilation all to keep their own gender expectations intact.
Now please do not assume I am ever bashing anyone within the Trans community. I am an intersexed person, fighting for my own medical history, which i know most of. and Fighting for my own rights to exist as me and not some parody of a man doctors assumed i would be happy as.
I am not worried or fearful about people seeing me as Trans. I do worry that parents will approve surgery on their kids because they are afraid of what their friends will say, parents are ashamed of what their kids are born looking like. Doctors routinely medically, surgically abuse anyone who does not fit the so called Gender norms for boys and girls.
Now, Transsexuality does reinforce the Two gender binary accepted in most of our society’s. Fact remains that Gender Binary is a lie. Variation exists and people need to stop assuming what they have been taught is accurate.
Lack of knowledge is not an exscuse to be an idiot, a bigot, a racist, or well damn near anything else.
The Trans movement, is beneficial to society, it does show that how we think about ourselves does indeed matter.
Now again I am an open Intersexed True-Hermaphrodite. We do exist. I am also reassigning midlife, but I am doing so because I know, that surgery to assign me as male, and I am not, was a wasted, shameful, abusive act perpetuated to reinforce Gender Stereotype of what a Boy should look like, what a young man should look like, and what an older intersexed Male assigned person should have internally. All that means is I have been repeatedly abused and cut up so that other people saw me as a man. Shame of all that, is that I am not a man.
I am intersexed, hermaphroditic, technically a True-hermaphrodite. I do not fit into a gender binary social system of two genders. That is what i am fighting for. To be me, a intersexed, hermaphroditic, ie True-hermaphrodite that because of society acceptance, would rather have the world see me as woman then as man; yet I acknowledge i am neither male or female, just a mix of both.
What i am asking now, is why must some Trans men invade other Gender variant minorities and assume you all are like us. This might be a lil hateful to read.
Some Bigots do not see a MtF as Female, same for FtM. I do think it is a shame, but just because their are people who do not see the T community as their target gender does not mean that all people are racism or bigots or hate mongers. Now that said, Intersex is much different then Transsexual. Yet it seems their is a growing crowd of Trans men and women asssuming that Transsexuality is a Subset of intersexuality. Which that one comment, just goes to show that if normal bigoted people arent accepting them as men and women, they have defaulted to assume a intersexed community is welcoming to accept Transsexuality as intersexed.
Unfortunately we are not.
We have our own worries and our own interests and do not approve of those within the Trans community to assume our issues are the same as their issues.
Please do not think I am bashing TS people. I am a very understanding loving person, but I am getting really tired of seeing different people post the same crap information over and over again about Intersex Brain Theory based off of incomplete medical research that only discredits itself. Sloppy science is not science.
Please leave the Intersex community alone, we do not want people assuming, that any intersexed person is Transsexual. We do not want to worry about the Trans hate, bashing, killing being afflicted onto us, because someone heard that one of us is a transsexual. We within the I.S. Community are allready beaten up enough by doctors, and all the idiots in the world do not need to assume an intersex born person is Trans.
Please leave I.S. to those who are affected by intersexed conditions ie Genetic errors.
If you are not being accepted by bogoted men or by bogoted women, do not assume that running to the Intersexed and expecting acceptance within is going to happen. None want anything to do with confusing Intersex conditions with Transsexuality. We are treated bad enough allready. Leave the IS community to us and us alone.
Kailana Sidrandi Alaniz
July 10, 2009 at 1:48 pm
timberwraith:
…A-n-d… fixed.
Helen the editing faery
Helen G
July 10, 2009 at 2:24 pm
Awesome! Thank you, Helen. :)
timberwraith
July 10, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Kailana,
I agree with you that the way some trans people claim intersex as an identity is appropriative and erases what intersex people experience, but it’s not what all trans people believe, and I don’t support those perspectives, nor do I post things that support those perspectives.
Lisa Harney
July 10, 2009 at 6:30 pm
Kailana,
In fact, if you read more of the articles here and some of the comment threads, you will see that the community here is generally against such appropriation at this time.
You would have also learnt that trans people don’t reinforce the binary, unlike what you claimed.
Squigglefish
July 10, 2009 at 7:22 pm
Caoimhe Ora Snow wrote:
Seems to me, from my experience and observation, like this describes a significant pattern of how power operates and maintains itself in this system in contexts where the exercise of power is more subtle than overt.
I wonder, what positive for trans people, individually or collectively, comes of this kind of “learning” by cis people/self-proclaimed trans allies?
And if there is something positive, how often does the amount of the positive match or exceed the harm required to get there? Like looking at flows of energy — what is the net impact, how much of what does it take to produce what result overall?
My experience in other areas where I am in the oppressed position and dealing with this kind of “learning experience” is that the amount of harm done and energy drained and diverted often far exceeds the small positive (or positive-appearing) learning result. {But sometimes I find myself grateful anyway. Did I say that out loud? Ugh.}
It seems to me like there is considerable pressure in this system to evaluate the final result as if it has no context and requires nothing to get there. Like, the product of this kind of “learning” is supposed to stand all shiny on a pedestal in camera close-up making it look really big, as if it stands alone in a vacuum, unconnected from all that made it happen.
I wish I had a better way to put this to words.
Michelle
July 10, 2009 at 9:42 pm
Michelle:
This strikes me as the crucial part. I think the cure for it can only be to pay attention to the individual reality of the people involved, and to remember that cumulative outcomes only exist as the sum of what happens to the individuals. We can decide whether a price is worth it, but only once we acknowledge and understand what the price is.
Ceri B.
July 10, 2009 at 10:44 pm
Ceri B, timberwraith
Thanks. Understood.
chosha
July 11, 2009 at 12:21 am
> How nice that Chosha, who claims to be a trans ally, has finally managed to learn something!
and let’s just keep slapping her around for it, shall we? because, you know, negative reinforcement is such a well-established pedagogic method.
cigfran
July 11, 2009 at 8:07 am
Yeah, okay, I’m locking comments on this post for now.
Lisa Harney
July 11, 2009 at 8:26 am
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