Quixotess: Please Boycott Feministing
Quixotess has posted about the way Feministing treats feminists with disabilities:
I know you may already be boycotting Feministing because of, well, because of loads of reasons.
You may have decided not to go there anymore back when Jessica Valenti’s book Full Frontal Feminism came out and it was shallow racist crap predicated on condescending to young feminists, or when the criticism by women of color was ignored, or attacked.
You may have decided not to go there anymore as part of the boycott triggered by Feministing’s transphobia.
You may have stopped going there after their classist “boycott Walmart” post (no linklove for Feministing, sorry.)
Today I am asking you to boycott Feministing because of the bullying, privileged, bad faith way they have treated feminists with disabilities.
The chat, ostensibly held to improve treatment of disability at Feministing, was a joke. It was a lot of denial of responsibility, especially from Miriam, (“do you think we have control over our comment threads?”) capped by Courtney’s tone argument against amandaw.
In the follow up post on Feministing, Courtney said she was “excited” to learn more about disability, but then rattled off the suggestions for improvements without attribution to feminists with disabilities. When feminists with disabilities came to Feministing to criticize the follow-up post, there was no response from Courtney or any other Feministing contributor, even though she commented on the thread itself.
When I e-mailed Courtney, Jessica, and Miriam to ask for an explanation, only Courtney e-mailed me back (see comment thread), to say that she was no longer willing to engage publicly regarding the chat or the follow up post, and that if Amandaw wanted an apology she could contact Courtney herself. This flies in the face of the agreement that feminists with disabilities were very careful to secure, that the chat and subsequent discussion would be public. (Feministing’s consent to that agreement is right at the beginning of the chat transcript linked above.)
I think Meloukhia is right. This is evidence of bad faith. As of now, Feministing’s follow up post is still up, lending credence to the wrong idea that they are working on disability inclusion. In other words, they are getting a free improvement to their image because of the work feminists with disabilities did for them, when in fact they are maltreating and actively marginalizing feminists with disabilities. This is dishonest and I don’t think we should be silent about it.
Consequently, I am asking you to boycott Feministing. This includes:
1) Taking Feministing off your blogrolls,
2) Not linking to Feministing’s posts or community posts, and
3) Raising awareness of the abysmal way Feministing has treated feminists with disabilities and other marginalized people.I note that meloukhia’s open letter to Feministing is already at the bottom of the first page of google results for “Feministing.” How about raising that signal even more?
Other suggestions and discussion welcome here.
Please boycott Feministing.
While you’re free to comment here about the many ways that Feministing is not a welcoming space for all feminists, it’d also be polite to take discussion to Quixotess’ blog.
Unsubscribed! Hope that all of this leads to some sort of policy changes at Feministing that will address all of the fail.
Nicole
November 12, 2009 at 7:59 pm
The post about trans people that turned into a pogrom in the comments, where far too many commenters wrote that trans people must out themselves to cis people before having sex otherwise it is non-consensual, even to the point of invoking legal sophism to justify their bigotry, not only turned me off feministing completely, but left me with such ill-feeling for english speaking (mostly) american feminism that I don’t think I would use that word to describe my political and social stance anymore. Feminism as it is done by these women has become a nationalism of the body.
frances
November 13, 2009 at 3:28 am
Frances, that is an amazing turn of phrase that I am giving thought to. Thanks for commenting.
Em
November 13, 2009 at 4:58 am
Well you know, it’s not as if defining sex with a non-disclosing trans person as sexual assault could ever be abused by the people who claim they murder trans women after “discovering” that said women were trans. Wouldn’t that be a fun addition to the panic defense? “Self-defense from attempted rape.”
And someone in that discussion had the utter gall to claim that this actually protects trans people from that kind of thing.
Lisa Harney
November 13, 2009 at 5:52 am
Not surprising in the least, as nothing legitimizes prejudice quite like claiming its “for their own good.”
After all, if trans people simply “stopped assaulting people by non-disclosure” then people wouldn’t be so panicked over us and there would be no violence.
Typing the above nauseated me; I think I’m done with sarcasm.
John
November 13, 2009 at 9:11 am
I’d gladly join the boycott, except I’m already boycotting them for the article/comments section cited before.
laughriotgirl
November 13, 2009 at 12:41 pm
[...] and for a link. (Should I have consulted with y’all first? I just up and did it on my own!) We got one! I’m so happy for all the trans* voices talking about [...]
Protests and labors of creation « Reconcile
November 13, 2009 at 2:03 pm
FYI, you can link to a site without the site knowing about it with some simple HTML.
<a href=”badsite.com” rel=”nofollow” title=”whatever”>bad link</a>
rel=”nofollow” is the important part. Links with this attribute will not be indexed by any search engine, counter, cookie, or what have you.
This way you can, you know, prove what you’re talking about exists without given said site the benefit of knowing where visitors with a certain viewpoint are being directed from.
Aerik
November 14, 2009 at 1:03 am
I told the folks at FWD this would happen.
It happened with us, didn’t it? Feministing has long been in my shit list. I don’t even link them to rant about them.
genderbitch
November 15, 2009 at 10:57 am
Laughriotgirl said:
“I’d gladly join the boycott, except I’m already boycotting them for the article/comments section cited before.”
Yeah, so there’s that. I was never a big reader of Feministing before, and after the past and present fails, I definitely will never be in the future.
Ethyl
November 15, 2009 at 11:50 am
So yeah, there’s some really disheartening stuff in the comments section of Feministing. Definitely not a safe space for us.
But nonetheless, I feel like Feministing is one of the few venues in which actual dialogue between cis feminists and trans feminists is occuring.
There’s a lot of work left to do, and cis and trans women will have to work together if we’re going to make a dent.
If there were some other high-traffic community where cis and trans women were connecting, I could support a ban of Feministing. I may be uninformed, but I’m not aware of any such online space. So, I feel like isolating ourselves from places like Feministing is hurting more than it’s helping.
Are the comments filled with intolerance and ignorance? You betcha. Does it suck to feel unsafe every time you venture in to the comments section? Yes, it’s pretty awful.
However, I think there are still a lot of (cis) women at Feministing who are true trans allies. I think that it would be much more productive to support and expand that community than to sever ties. A trans presence is *needed* to cultivate awareness, understanding, and comradery.
We’re all in this together.
Ali
November 15, 2009 at 12:33 pm
It’s not just about how trans people are discussed and treated at Feministing, but also about how people with disabilities and people of color are treated there, how women at the intersections of these lives are treated. I won’t even deny that many of the posters at Feministing want it to be more trans friendly, but the environment there on any trans-related post turns toxic.
But even if we do go hang out there, are you willing to excuse the ableism described in this post? Is that okay as long as we (and by “we” I mean able-bodied trans women) get what we want from the interaction?
Why is it necessary for trans women to go to cis women in order to build a bridge? Why are the burdens always laid at our feet? If cis women want to be allies to trans women, why can they not come to us? And, to be fair, they do.
If you want to go to Feministing, by all means. I occasionally read and comment there myself, even after the trans boycott was called.
How about this: Instead of focusing on the spaces where we’re often made to feel unwelcome, and focusing on the people who do their best to make us unwelcome, we focus on ourselves, and support ourselves?
Lisa Harney
November 15, 2009 at 8:48 pm
Well you know, it’s not as if defining sex with a non-disclosing trans person as sexual assault could ever be abused by the people who claim they murder trans women after “discovering” that said women were trans. Wouldn’t that be a fun addition to the panic defense? “Self-defense from attempted rape.”
I don’t see what relevance these wacky hypothetical scenarios have to a serious discussion about your personhood, Lisa. Can’t you stay on topic instead of making emotional appeals based on trivial things like murder with impunity?
Commenters in the thread pointed out that sex with paranoiac transphobes is about as prize a possession as the used condom of a misogynist deadbeat, but:
If you can commit assault by failing to fit into someone’s worldview, you don’t have the right to exist at all.
piny
November 15, 2009 at 10:11 pm
I suppose I always hold out hope that intolerance stems from ignorance, not malice. I don’t think the women at Feministing are evil, even though some of them have said some pretty evil things about me. I think they just don’t know any better.
I suppose that, on your terms, the ban makes sense. Perhaps it’s important to warn folks that feministing isn’t safe for all. I think that making noise about trouble in the community (i.e., what’s happening here and elsewhere) is an important part of the dialogue.
I think I’ll still go there and look for opportunities to be a positive example of a t girl or to contribute constructively to trans-related dialogue if I’m able. Not because I think it’s my/our responsibility, or that the only routes to acceptance/equality are external.
I just think it helps. A lot.
I mean, don’t we all know a zillion people who would be total transphobes if not for our influence in their lives?
Or conversely, I know that my transition at work went very smoothly and successfully not because of dumb luck, but because everyone in the department has had sensitivity training about LGBT issues. Same with my very positive experiences at the county court, the SSA office, etc.
Trans outreach to cis folks has *greatly* improved my life. I think Feministing is a fertile opportunity, so for now I still go there.
I’m guessing you all have been at this for a lot longer than me — I’m only 5 months old. Am I being naive?
Ali
November 16, 2009 at 9:31 am
No, you’re being optimistic. You’re aware of the problems and feeling like you want to persist anyway, and that’s very much your right to choose. You need to be prepared for when things don’t work out as you’d expected or planned, but then pessimists need to do that too.
Ceri B.
November 16, 2009 at 9:50 am
I suppose I always hold out hope that intolerance stems from ignorance, not malice. I don’t think the women at Feministing are evil, even though some of them have said some pretty evil things about me. I think they just don’t know any better.
I don’t recall that anyone said that the commenters at Feministing are evil or malicious. After that first paragraph, I’m a bit wary of what you mean by “I suppose that, on your terms, the ban makes sense” after implying that there are two positions in this argument – one in which the commenters at Feministing are evil, and one in which they’re ignorant, and firmly placing yourself on the “ignorant” side.
This post itself is also not strictly about how transphobic Feministing is. It’s actually about how ableist Feministing is, with supporting commentary on how transphobic the environment there is.
Lisa Harney
November 16, 2009 at 10:32 am
Also, what people might intend or think they intend doesn’t matter to me when they’re saying things like “a trans person who doesn’t disclose before sex is committing sexual assault,” comparing sex with trans people to sex with people who have STDs, describing a visceral disgust to the thought of having sex with a trans woman and then saying “But I’m not transphobic” and then complaining about ad hominem when someone responds “many trans women probably would not want to sleep with you.”
Further, intent is meaningless to me when someone says something bigoted (ignoring the kind of bigotry), and then either gets defensive and insists that the garbage they said wasn’t really bigoted and that the person who called them out for it oversensitive and too mean/angry, or they go off into some kind of non-apology about how they didn’t intend to offend rather than addressing what they did say, that did offend.
Lisa Harney
November 16, 2009 at 11:08 am
FYI, I was informed Feministing is now monitoring all posts involving trans references “because these posts tend to draw ignorant and/or hateful comments”. The problem is, now trans topics are basically kind of ‘roped off’ from the rest of the site. Responses to these topics are very slow in being published which tends to mess up any flow of a discussion (and greatly minimize the number of posts).
Sorry to further derail from the OP on ableism.
Gina Morvay
November 16, 2009 at 11:39 am
Oh my. I didn’t mean to make a straw man argument. I see that ‘evil’ was a bad choice.
By “your terms”, I just mean to identify your impetus for the ban as I understand it. I.e., I mean to say that I think your position is philosophically self-consistent.
Able and cis bias at Feministing? Yes there is. Should action be taken? Yes, and I’m glad that there’s a discussion here and elsewhere about it.
I’m just wondering aloud if isolating ourselves from a fairly large and noteworthy community of women (who seem to *want* to check their cis/class/able privilege) is really the best course of action.
I concede that my preoccupation with trans ‘witnessing’ (to borrow a term from our Christian friends) may be a bit juvenile. And, maybe I’m giving Feministers too much credit.
How about this: I think that the problems at Feministing should be met with *more* representation from minority groups (us), not less.
Lisa, I’m scared to disagree with you! Ahhh, I’m about to click ‘Submit’…..!!
Ali
November 16, 2009 at 11:58 am
Thank you for clarifying – I appreciate it.
I never stopped reading Feministing after the trans boycott was called – but I ended up only commenting when trans fail was underway.
Online communities are largely not self-contained entities with no crossover elsewhere. They’re big blurry overlapping things where any one person can participate in multiple places.
Anyway, I linked above to a post by BlackAmazon which has another take on the whole thing that you might find interesting.
Lisa Harney
November 16, 2009 at 12:06 pm
Feministing reminded me of my real allies, and those people I have genuine solidarity with. It has also made my stomach hurt. A lot.
Agreed on doing it for ourselves. A feminist blog with a diversity of voices apart from the usual focus on the ideas of the able-bodied, white, middle-class, cis, or academics? A diversity of women helping each other be heard? That’s almost the sort of feminism I’d be interested in being part of.
gudbuytjane
November 16, 2009 at 12:06 pm
Ok, that all sounds great. Black Amazon said, don’t boycott feministing, support something else.
But, where *are* these communities with a harmonious plurality of voices? I can’t find any!
Also, Jane, can you tell me more about what you meant above? First you want to do it ourselves, but then you want a diversity of voices? I’m confused!
And, as much as the ‘do it ourselves’ ethos sounds empowering and exciting… what real change are we going to affect if we don’t reach out beyond our own community? This is not at all meant to be contrarian, I really just want to understand better!
Ali
November 16, 2009 at 3:37 pm
This, one supposes, is the problem with any movement, the radicals tend to be disposed to epic amounts of fail, like this poster, who has bashed feministing for being *too* trans friendly:
(Warning! Great big dollops of transphobic fail of the Heartesque variety. Only for the strong-willed.)
http://factcheckme.wordpress.com/2009/11/16/the-fallacy-of-cis-privilege/#comment-779
Valerie Keefe
November 16, 2009 at 4:12 pm
comparing sex with trans people to sex with people who have STDs
It sounded like they were comparing sex with trans people to sex with people who have STDs and knowingly spread them to unwitting partners.
This, one supposes, is the problem with any movement, the radicals tend to be disposed to epic amounts of fail, like this poster, who has bashed feministing for being *too* trans friendly:
JV isn’t radical, though–and Feministing isn’t a radical site; it’s mainstream in ways apart from a failure to grapple with intersectionality. I think that’s part of the problem, too: you set the bar a little bit lower, and then the discussion sinks below that.
Maybe it’s the people most invested in the group identity? That is, the ones who tend to get all, “My mother, drunk or sober!” when other community members point out that they sound very similar to the sexist bigots they can’t stand? Some of the anger is over this argument that feminism should be welcoming rather than cozy.
piny
November 16, 2009 at 4:27 pm
“Ok, that all sounds great. Black Amazon said, don’t boycott feministing, support something else.”
That wasn’t really what blackamazon was saying. She was saying “boycott Feministing as a way to support something else (YOU), not as a way to correct the Feministing community.
quixotess
November 16, 2009 at 4:40 pm
@Ali
To clarfiy, I meant do it ourselves = the solidarity of women who Feministing is not serving/actively marginalizing. I think working together to boost the signal of the diversity of women who fall into that group is an exciting proposition, one I am glad to see more of.
gudbuytjane
November 16, 2009 at 4:54 pm
Lisa said:
“Further, intent is meaningless to me when someone says something bigoted (ignoring the kind of bigotry), and then either gets defensive and insists that the garbage they said wasn’t really bigoted and that the person who called them out for it oversensitive and too mean/angry, or they go off into some kind of non-apology about how they didn’t intend to offend rather than addressing what they did say, that did offend.”
See, and this is the thing. It’s not like it was one or two moments of ignorance that were acknowledged and apologized for and learned from — it’s pretty clear at this point that it’s a pattern. It’s not *just* about race issues, or disability issues, or trans issues. And it seems like it’s always the same with this particular flavor of upper-class white cis abled feminism. I’m not going to name other names but Feministing is definitely one of a handful of “feminist” blogs that haven’t much got a handle on anything but themselves, and really seem to have no interest in reaching out.
Ali said:
“(who seem to *want* to check their cis/class/able privilege)…”
Now to be fair, I have rarely checked out Feministing, let alone the comments, but really? I find it … difficult to believe that the bloggers and their commenters have such a disconnect?
Ethyl
November 17, 2009 at 4:25 am
This post has been included in a linkspam at access-fandom. Thank you!
Sasha-feather
November 21, 2009 at 9:36 pm
Ali said:
“How about this: I think that the problems at Feministing should be met with *more* representation from minority groups (us), not less.”
That’s great. If you want to do that, by all means, don’t let anyone stop you. But for many disabled people, including myself, energy is a determining factor. When you (or anyone!) can give me more, I’ll be happy to go try to fight dis/ableism. In the meantime, though, I can’t; I don’t have enough energy to both fight for disabled feminists AND do everything else I need to do. That may be an important distinction between specifically trans feminism and specifically disabled feminism. (Not that there can’t be an intersect, of course! But ablebodied anyone have so much more energy than I have even on a good day.)
Kitrona
November 24, 2009 at 1:32 am