Police and Trans Women of Color
A few days ago, a friend of mine pointed to this post on The Bilerico Project, where Bil Browning took an admittedly inflammatory comment from Lyssa / Voz about the Human Rights Campaign out of context and said
While we keep Projector’s information private, this would be a case where I would gladly hand over any identifying information to the authorities.
Lyssa tried to explain the threat that invoking the police brings to trans women in general, people of color in general, and specifically trans women of color. As Donna Johnson puts it,
Many privileged people will not see a problem with this post, but I do. And I’m not trans, I know this because I am a woman of color. I know that the state will believe a white person over me, and that the threatening to call the police on me by a white person could very well result in beating, rape, and even death. I do not expect the police or justice system to treat me fairly.
Let’s put it this way, if two cis, heterosexual, white, able bodied, middle class, typical men get into an argument and one says he’s going to call the cops because the other said some mean and nasty things, the other would laugh it off. The police are there to protect these normative people, not harass them or arrest them for no reason. The justice system works the way it should and the way it is expected for these people. The most likely scenario, is that the police will break it up and tell the parties to go home. But the further you get into the margins the more likely the state and it’s systems are there to keep a watchful eye on you and take you out if you cause trouble.
But you should read her full post. Or read about Duanna Johnson. Or read about little light’s jail experience. Read a few more. Especially that second one about Christine Sforza – her friend called the police because a man was beating her with a pipe, but she was the one who was arrested.
When you threaten a trans woman of color with police involvement when she’s committed no crime at all, you are threatening her with violence. Not just the violence of police abuse – the potential for humiliation and beatings from police officers notwithstanding, but also the danger that the police will lock her up with cis male inmates, who themselves can and frequently will commit further violence against trans women.
There was no reason for this grandstanding, Bil. You invoked the possibility of police violence against Lyssa for a more verbose version of “die in a fire,” something that people frequently say on the internet. While I completely appreciate that you do not want such comments on The Bilerico Project, the way you handled it in a way that’s racist and transphobic – and you, as a cis white man, do not get to elide the context of your statements, to pretend that there is no history of police violence against trans women or women of color.
The cis LGB movement has to realize that trans anger at HRC is justified.
Also, what I said on the post at Bilerico:
Bil, the violence Lyssa is talking about is real – the police historically treat trans women of color extremely harshly – and threats (implied or otherwise) of police involvement are a pretty standard way to invoke white privilege against people of color.
It’s also something HRC has used to silence “dissent” from trans people on at least one occasion.
It’s definitely a way to invoke fear in trans women and people of color both, as the law is typically favorable to cis people and white people and not very friendly to trans people or people of color.
Quoting her post while indicating that in her case, you would cooperate to the full extent the law would request does read as a threat in that sense, and triply so because of the previous paragraph. I think of the case of Duanna Johnson in particular.
Of course, you didn’t threaten to call the police yourself, but you made it clear that you would cooperate with the police – make it easier for them to put Lyssa into that situation – even though she’s not going to go out and kill anyone from HRC.
I’ll also point out that when oppressed people find their voice, the first thing they express tends to be anger. A lot of trans people are finding our voices right now…and a lot of us are angry. Esp angry with HRC. Some are going to say some pretty harsh things about HRC, but I think, in general, harsh words – and more – are deserved. Not murder or any other criminal act, obviously. But I understand Lyssa’s anger, because I feel it too.
And now I wonder just how safe it is to express that anger in certain places.
I think “ally” is officially a tool of oppression now to silence out of line bitches.
Everytime that jackass says it he’s saying something very different to me than what he thinks he saying.
We don’t need anymore fucking allies. We need people who want to fight transphobia–including their own.
Lynn
March 24, 2009 at 6:10 pm
Lisa, Thanks for the shoutout.
Police violence against us is real. No crime need be committed, either, as I described here, when I was beaten by the San Antonio cops many many years ago.
http://dmj618.livejournal.com/1297.html?thread=2577#t2577
I was laying injured in the road, and someone called the popo, thinking it would make it all better.
popo isn’t ur friend if ur a twoc. Bil got offended, and wanted to do this to me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6N1Bvlbh_ws
He also bragged that it was “even easier” for him, since the HRC would drop that dime.
Your HRC and local white cis gay male ally blogger at work for you and me.
voz
March 24, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Not to detract from any of this, but a multiracial transwoman of color get it not only from the police, but from the inmates — sexism *and* racism.
And in such situations, is inevitably beaten in ways that make a certain gay male martyr’s death seem downright pleasant.
dyssonance
March 24, 2009 at 7:24 pm
Bil doesn’t get or doesn’t care to get knowledgeable about oppressed people that are part of the LGBT umbrella: he doesn’t care about intersectionality, about trans history and what we’ve historically been subjected to, he doesn’t care about trans voices, etc., etc., etc., I’ve experienced this first hand.
It’s a shame, because the other contributors seem fine, but I don’t want to get involved in any of his stuff any more, tyvm.
z
March 24, 2009 at 7:28 pm
Yeah, I tried to mention that as well, Dyss.
Lisa Harney
March 24, 2009 at 7:40 pm
*blink*
…
Thats fucked up.
Continually kicking us out in the cold as they wouldn’t want the freaky siblings making them look uncivilised is one thing. Threatening to bring the ’second military’ down on us because we dare to defend ourselves is a whole other level of hate.
I feel ignorant and ashamed I wasn’t aware that the L&G faction in the U.S regularly stoop that low (having read down in the comments where someone lists off HRC’s use of force against trans voices).
Jessikat
March 24, 2009 at 7:53 pm
I’m having a hard time deciding which is worse:
The “I am a willing tool of the oppressors” concept.
OR
The “I had all kind of options for dealing with a comment I dislike, so I’ll make the worst of it.”
I am VERY impressed with Lyssa’s comments on that thread.
Creating a better world isn’t easy and it’s going to take people like Lyssa to make that happen. That’s the sad thing that Bil can’t grasp. He’s already failed.
Ravenmn
March 24, 2009 at 9:11 pm
I don’t think any law enforcement agency would take those comments to be imminent, credible threats of violence. Bil (and his cronies) seem to be taking an unnecessary tough guy approach to this.
This makes me so furious. Well, at least I know not to visit Bilerico in the future.
Amanda in the South Bay
March 24, 2009 at 9:27 pm
I posted on this too. I’m appalled.
TrinityVA
March 24, 2009 at 9:36 pm
Voting with your viewing is one way to try and handle a problem that appears rooted in ignorance. I honestly don’t think Bil is a bad guy. Prolly neither is Samir. But both are ignorant and withdrawing from them is not going to educate them and some of the commenters on the thread in question at Bilerico.
I found it instructive that both seem to feel free to invoke and threaten, to some degree, the police-card. It’s usually the first threat from people who feel that their privilege is enough to make a “charge” stick.
It’s been my experience that people who are well-aware that the cops will prolly blame the victim almost never call the police, even when they could maybe use them provided the cops weren’t gonna arrest and hassle them instead of the perps. Thse folks just never manage to feel they will be given police-protection.
I suspect that the joy of feeling themselves part of the “real social environment” does this. They’ve either forgotten or both are so young that they never knew that there have been times not so long ago that gay males when being gay-bashed wouldn’t call the cops for fear of being bashed all over again when the cops arrived.
I’m really glad that gay males can feel they’ll get a positive hearing now from the police. But they also should understand readily that others are not going to get such a “fair hearing” and people of color, most especially trans people of color are prolly not going to get those fair hearings. Certainly they’ve no reason to think they will.
Just as most people of transsexing/transsexed histories also prolly don’t feel they will get fair hearings when their lives are threatened.
This seems that it could be one of those invauable “teaching moments.” But you can’t “teach” if you aren’t around the folk who need the lessons.
Radha
March 24, 2009 at 9:48 pm
Look at Bil’s tweets. he is stalking Drakyn, his next target. he believes “DIAF” to be a credible threat, and appears to be planning to escalate.
They are also comparing this to Virginia Tech on Twitter. No shit.
They are paranoid, and marginally delusional. They believe that their cause is righteous, and their behavior beyond reproach.
Can you say persecution complex?
The new Bilerico policy: “Fuck with cis white gay male privilege, we will fuck you up bad.”
Ravenmn, thank you. Go se ma new blog at voz_latina. I plan to button it up so the cismale gay dudes can’t come in and do stuff.
voz
March 24, 2009 at 9:49 pm
Radha,
twoc die to teach stupid white ppl lessons that they just toss aside anyway.
And ur white privilege is showing, bad. I love u, but….damn. Pleas e be careful next time you propose that twoc put ourselves in the line of fire of gay male entitlement just to teach the unteachable.
we die that way…
which seems to be the big issue here, isn’t it?
One more time.
twoc die so whites can go to school on these issues, and most of them turn out to be class clowns.
Get it, please.
voz
March 24, 2009 at 9:54 pm
I rarely visited Bilerico, but I had always assumed it was a rather inclusive site, with a wide variety of views. When the owner threatens a trans person with the cops, should know better, overreacts to a comment, and doesn’t back off-you can’t reason with that kind of fuckwadery.
Amanda in the South Bay
March 24, 2009 at 9:56 pm
Ditto to what voz said. “Educating” the willfully clueless is not something we should be prioritizing over the well-being of twoc.
And that’s just plain what-the-fuckery about being worried about Drakyn. He was making fun of their paranoia, not making a threat. FFS.
queen emily
March 24, 2009 at 10:03 pm
Taken from Twitter: http://twitter.com/MattAlgren/status/1366408627
@bilerico My 2c: Lock it down and hand out some temp-bans, esp. with a 2nd threat. (Look up DIAF) Your rule shouldn’t be up for discussion.
11:39 AM Mar 21st from mobile web
MattAlgren
Matt Algren
They are gonna start jabbering about a “mine shaft gap” in a few hours at this rate.
voz
March 24, 2009 at 10:12 pm
WHAT THE EVERLOVING FUCK?!
TrinityVA
March 24, 2009 at 10:13 pm
Radha,
One of the things that marginalized people have to be able to do is make space away from privilege. We have to be able to take care of ourselves, and if the cost of engagement is harmful, we should not be obligated (or tell each other we’re obligated) to educate. One of the basic precepts of activism is that it is not the marginalized person’s job to educate. We educate because we choose to – not because we have to, not because others can demand we educate. No one should feel obligated to put themselves on the line when confronting privilege that directly oppresses them.
Lisa Harney
March 24, 2009 at 10:19 pm
That’s why I accepted your apology – I know you’re not a nutjob actually wanting to kill all HRC staffers. You just crossed the line – and I’ll point out that I didn’t name you as the culprit since pointing you out wasn’t the goal. Everyone has to follow those rules – including me. :)
http://www.bilerico.com/2009/03/read_this_this_is_not_acceptable_on_bile.php#comment-179541
20 hours later, this is Bil to his friends…
Raw Twitter text, cut and pasted from http://twitter.com/bilerico
@soofriends They have had stalkers and threats to other staffers.
12:57 PM Mar 21st from TweetDeck in reply to soofriends
@soofriends We have 1000s of readers. I DON’T know if they issue real threats or not. I don’t know most Projectors. Better safe than sorry.
12:13 PM Mar 21st from TweetDeck in reply to soofriends
@soofriends And those fantasies get people killed. Think Virginia Tech. He put it all on the internet first
12:11 PM Mar 21st from TweetDeck in reply to soofriends
@soofriends I didn’t threaten her. I said if police come calling over death threats, I would cooperate. Wouldn’t you? Trans or not?
12:10 PM Mar 21st from TweetDeck in reply to soofriends
@soofriends Think how many times you hear about killers “I never would have thought…” You just never know.
12:08 PM Mar 21st from TweetDeck in reply to soofriends
@iurbia Frustrated. But okay. More amazed than anything. It seems so simple to me.
12:07 PM Mar 21st from TweetDeck in reply to iurbia
@soofriends Telling him “She’s usually nice in the comments” isnt’ much comfort when you’re looking for someone who wants 2 do you violence
12:06 PM Mar 21st from TweetDeck in reply to soofriends
@soofriends Seriously – that was me being nice and trying to make it more of a blanket policy without just pointing her out.
12:05 PM Mar 21st from TweetDeck in reply to soofriends
@soofriends But what does Samir have 2 do with leadership of the org? He doesn’t make those decisions. He’s done the most for trans there
12:05 PM Mar 21st from TweetDeck in reply to soofriends
@soofriends And sadly, while I was nice to her in the comments, I DON’T know she wouldn’t act on it. I’ve never met her, seen her, anything.
12:01 PM Mar 21st from TweetDeck in reply to soofriends
@soofriends And should I not say I’d cooperate with police in an investigation of a death threat just because the aggressor is trans?
12:00 PM Mar 21st from TweetDeck in reply to soofriends
@soofriends Yes, but imagine being Samir – the guy who got the death threat? Should he not be able to post without that?
12:00 PM Mar 21st from TweetDeck in reply to soofriends
@soofriends Yeah – but bathrooms is very different from killing someone – which she advocated.
11:52 AM Mar 21st from TweetDeck in reply to soofriends
@soofriends ..I’m not going to hold up an investigation & possibly let someone get hurt. OR what if violence already happened? I’d give info
11:52 AM Mar 21st from TweetDeck in reply to soofriends
@soofriends If it were a trans OR cis Projector my response would be the same. If the cops come calling over a death threat…
11:51 AM Mar 21st from TweetDeck in reply to soofriends
@soofriends That’s not pertinent tho. With today’s climate you never know what someone is capable of. Or who will read it and act on it.
11:49 AM Mar 21st from TweetDeck in reply to soofriends
@MattAlgren what is DIAF?
11:46 AM Mar 21st from Tweetie in reply to MattAlgren
@leewaters yeah. I hate doing “blog owner” posts since it’s a group blog but whattaya do?
11:46 AM Mar 21st from Tweetie in reply to leewaters
@iurbia I think so too
11:45 AM Mar 21st from Tweetie in reply to iurbia
WTF? I’m advocating violence by telling Projectors advocating violence is never acceptable? Um, okay then. F–ked up. http://bit.ly/VT0NH
11:01 AM Mar 21st from TweetDeck
@heysonnie Not a problem. Can’t wait to hear the result.
9:14 PM Mar 20th from TweetDeck in reply to heysonnie
@egheitasean Stop by any time. You’re always welcome. #tgot
9:13 PM Mar 20th from TweetDeck in reply to egheitasean
@indygwyn How was it? Did you get good eats?
9:11 PM Mar 20th from TweetDeck in reply to indygwyn
@ranggrol Thanks for the follow rec!
9:09 PM Mar 20th from TweetDeck in reply to ranggrol
@heysonnie Added. Looks like it’s all over now. Glad to see you on the site commenting, Sonnie. Come back often! :) #tamfs
9:09 PM Mar 20th from TweetDeck in reply to heyso
voz
March 24, 2009 at 10:46 pm
20 hours later, he says Viginia tech!!!
voz
March 24, 2009 at 10:47 pm
Yeah, invoking Virginia Tech, and going on about how “in today’s climate, anyone can flip out…”
But seriously, if what you posted is that scary, then your average gaming forum is inundated with scary death threats that are just being ignored. Imagine the possible devastation as angry gamers flip out over nerfs to their favorite characters and take “die in a fire” to a whole new level.
Because saying it means you totally could do it, and need to be controlled.
Lisa Harney
March 24, 2009 at 10:57 pm
God what a jackass. I got into it with him over there as robin (cuz blog wasn’t up yet), and def gonna blog about it tonight.
sixtoedkitties
March 24, 2009 at 11:00 pm
and…who can forget this pearl, made moments after the post that started it all at http://www.bilerico.com/2009/03/hrc_corporate_equality_30.php#comment-179398
“My apologies.
I meant to say “tinkle” on your grave. Saying “piss” was very unladylike.
As far as the rest, I want a pony, too. But we both know that all this ain’t gonna happen, now don’t we? So, your silencing has a very differential effect. When you try to “play fair” with a bully and a victim, you end up empowering the bully. But then again, that has always been your intent, hasn’t it?
If trans women had that kind of social power, there would be no need to advocate giving the HRC their just desserts, now would there?”
H/t to Drakyn for calling me out on wanting a pony. They naaasty.
I think the Projectors fear the twoc tinkle. lotsa ppl do, y’know.
voz
March 24, 2009 at 11:04 pm
I know you’re not a nutjob actually wanting to kill all HRC staffers. You just crossed the line
20 hours go by…
Virginia Tech babble on Twitter
Wow. just…wow.
smh
voz
March 24, 2009 at 11:06 pm
If they fear it, they prolly secretly want it.
sixtoedkitties
March 24, 2009 at 11:06 pm
(the twoc tinkle)
sixtoedkitties
March 24, 2009 at 11:06 pm
@six
They can’t afford my price. trust me on this.
voz
March 24, 2009 at 11:07 pm
:D
IDK they’ve got that whole, comfortable middle class, the cops are here to protect meeeeee, thing going on. I figured they were pretty well off.
sixtoedkitties
March 24, 2009 at 11:10 pm
(H/t Drakyn)
Don’t give Bil any money…look here for the comments
http://pics.livejournal.com/drakyn/pic/0000hkpq
voz
March 24, 2009 at 11:11 pm
IDK they’ve got that whole, comfortable middle class, the cops are here to protect meeeeee, thing going on. I figured they were pretty well off.
Like I said, they can’t afford ma price.
*thrusts ma bewbs out (shit…they block da keyboard…) pulls in a lil, so I can type, and coos softly: “Fear the twoc tinkle.”
voz
March 24, 2009 at 11:13 pm
Not sure I’d call it stalking since all he’s done (that I know of) is follow me on twitter–though why he’d do so when I’d just told him to diaf is unknown.
And it was one of Bil’s twitter followers/friends that said “diaf” is a death-threat, not Bil (though he apparently didn’t even know what diaf meant…).
I’m not too worried about it since diaf is a pretty common internet acronym (I hope? Hopefully Bil there is just clueless).
(Fyi, I made a screen-cap of the Bilerico post so folks don’t have to give Bil hits/ad-revinue)
drakyn
March 24, 2009 at 11:17 pm
O dear…I is a slow typer, Voz just linked my screencap for me whilst I typed.
Perhaps my sleeping pills are starting to kick in? Finally? -.-;;
drakyn
March 24, 2009 at 11:19 pm
Schweet, I will link that instead of the post.
sixtoedkitties
March 24, 2009 at 11:20 pm
Greetings from Virginia Tech. No, really.
I wasn’t planning on saying any more on this subject since I’ve expressed myself plenty on some of the lj posts, but Bil bringing up Virginia Tech? As if this is remotely the same? Thanks for disrespecting the 32 killed here as well as those of us who were here at the time and are still dealing with the after-affects. FOAD, Bil! Don’t you dare compare this to Virginia Tech! Just don’t!
(Oh, and for those of us who are apparently slow as Bil: DIAF?)
Lucy
March 24, 2009 at 11:37 pm
DIAF = Die in a fire.
Lisa Harney
March 24, 2009 at 11:39 pm
Oi Lucy, I am so sorry!
ma heart goes out to u and urs.
Lucy, post about ur displeasure
link this to it, since I am the woman he chose to go after in the name of his lil persecution fantasy
http://voz-latina.livejournal.com/903.html
Be sure to express the full extent of ur unhappiness with his appropriation of the Va Tech tragedy.
voz
March 24, 2009 at 11:41 pm
Lucy, can I offer u a net hug? cold beer? baseball bat?
I am so sorry to hear about ur experience.
voz
March 24, 2009 at 11:43 pm
voz,
Thanks for the net hug. I had a good cry while blogging about just Bil’s appropriation of Virginia Tech hurt me: http://lucypaw.blogspot.com/2009/03/bil-browning-appropriates-virginia-tech.html. I feel somewhat better after that. You know, I’m normally not a violent person (I admit your violent imagery about HRC disturbed me), but… UGH. Anyway. Must pet cat now and calm down.
(I also posted the link as a comment on your LJ post.)
Lucy
March 25, 2009 at 12:26 am
crap
I was just contacted by a friend of Samir. I am sorely tempted to publish the exchange, or at least some choice quotes
I think it was a calculated post designed to play me, since this is straight outta the HRC playbook.
shit.
voz
March 25, 2009 at 12:33 am
[...] also my friend, and a fucking amazing human being, and you are a fucking disgusting pig, who should DIAF. ZOMG somebody lock me [...]
DIAF, Bilerico Project « SixToedKitties
March 25, 2009 at 12:34 am
fuck me, just fuck me, more saccharine form the HRC.
voz
March 25, 2009 at 12:34 am
IDK why my name doesn’t link to my blog but I posted.
Lyssa…do it!
sixtoedkitties
March 25, 2009 at 12:39 am
okay.
I think this is not a real person, but a composite character written for the occasion. I firmly believe that this character was constructed to play on my sympathies as determined by a small focus group of between 4 and 6 individuals, and that they used experts who lack any salient experience with trans women of lower socioeconomic status.
However, in the interest of keeping the peace, and keeping the HRC from acting to hurt **real** trans women, I drafted and sent an apology that presupposes that this character is ion fact a real person.
I will post the exchange after clearing it with anybody here who might be hurt by it.
The HRC has no qualms about hurting us and will cheerfully fit you and me for a body bag if it gets them their next jug o “grape juice plus.”
For the love of all things holy, stay safe. This smacks of the FBI playbook. Contrived, full of buzzwords, and waaay too perfect.
voz
March 25, 2009 at 12:59 am
Here was my response.
I am so glad you wrote me! Thank you for choosing to engage me in a conversation. My regret is that it took an incident like this to be heard.
Please believe me when I say my rant was not directed at Samir, but rather the unabashed evil his organization represents.
Truth is, I saw the HRC name and just *lost it* I didn’t even read the name. I am visually impaired, and was not close enough to the screen to make out the name. It is so unfortunate that he got caught in this crossfire. Please communicate to him my deepest apologies, and make his reply known, so that tensions may be reduced between our interests.
Navigating the halls of power in a country like the US is hard when ur skin is brown. It breaks my heart that I made this job at all harder for someone like Samir.
That said, he is now working for an organization that freely profits off the deaths of me and mine. I do not know if he is aware of the deep resentment and antipathy many women with a trans history feel towards the HRC, but as you can see, it is there. He is maintaining the machinery of purest evil for us, so my apology is tempered by this fact.
My women friends who are trans are all dead, lives that could very likely have been saved had the HRC and its staff lived up to their promises, and abandoned the course of racism and hatred towards me and mine.
The HRC has a well established history of engaging police violence towards me and mine as well.There are many anecdotes of HRC staff threatening trans women and men into silence and compliance. Their mendacity to people of trans experience is a matter of record as well.
The humiliation of listening as Elizabeth Birch and others have stood before our Congress and used the images of my slain trans women sisters to argue for a hate protection law that actively excludes us is a large part of what drove my intemperate comment.
The list of horrors is a long one, and in the name of brevity and focus, I omit it.
I truly hope you can understand the despair and rage that led to that momentary loss of composure on my part, and the hopelessness for redress that I pen this letter to you. I hope that you can accept and communicate my sincerest apology to Samir and all who were affected by my words.
I do not dare hope that you can convince this organization to actively see me and my sisters as human beings worthy of the most basic of human considerations, and to express this in all their actions in a visible way. I do not expect the HRC to take this letter and treat it as anything other than a trophy of the HRC’s ability to coerce transgender women into a submissive silence.
My hope remains that you will be able to see this apology for what it is, and perhaps engage your friend to actively pursue redress for the transgender women that his organization has effectively abandoned to die without basic human protections. Should he fail at this, then he is deserving of the harshest criticisms, and a public examination of his failure to do so.
I hope that this letter finds you and your friend well, and that you enjoy the fullest lives possible. From hard experience, I cannot believe that the HRC and its staff, or Samir, wish me and mine the same.
Best wishes for you and Samir,
voz
March 25, 2009 at 1:01 am
Yeah.
A suggestion though about publishing backchannel communications, don’t use real names. Even if this person’s being a complete fuckbiscuit, outings can be issues for all kinds of reasons.
Not saying you shouldn’t mock, just that I know a lot of people are anonymous “in public” online.
queen emily
March 25, 2009 at 1:01 am
[...] and Trans Women of Color March 25, 2009 Lisa wrote this at Questioning Transphobia; I’m cross-posting it here because I think it’s an important topic that deserves to be [...]
Police and Trans Women of Color « bird of paradox
March 25, 2009 at 1:11 am
good idea
Use the alias fuckbiscuit, if you so choose
voz
March 25, 2009 at 1:19 am
Done.
queenemily
March 25, 2009 at 1:25 am
lovely. She lied about being trans
She is a natal female, and a muslim feminist and lesbian (NOT trans) rights activist. I have to go vomit now…
sighs…I cannot believe that I put any stock in that. Any. At. All.
Mock and out freely, she deserves far far worse.
voz
March 25, 2009 at 1:41 am
and, how the fuck did she get my name???
voz
March 25, 2009 at 1:42 am
Gross.
sixtoedkitties
March 25, 2009 at 2:16 am
I’ve gone on the record about how much Bil is just a colonizing, annoying douchebag of the highest order before. I think the queer community needs to stop giving his attitude problems a free pass simply because he’s gay and has a blog that a lot of people read. His attitudes often seem kinda like that i’d expect from a stereotypical fratboy, though i know lots of frat dudes who don’t behave like that.
As for Samir, the alleged “victim”…
You know what? I’m tired of hearing about how all these people at the HRC are “great guy(s)” (i’m going to avoid commenting how overwhelmingly white and male the HRC is…oh, wait, i did…) and how they’re “working from within.”
Then, i turn around, and when the HRC is positive it’s only us cissies all gathered around the fire, they start going on about how it’s important to have an ENDA bill that passes, that “won’t affect the President negatively.”
I’m sure that’s “working from within”, right?
algormortis
March 25, 2009 at 5:54 am
My bad, Lyss. Yep, no doubt my white privilege shows through. I was raised white and have found no way to make myself other.
But I can feel for your experience through, a bit, my own.
My calling tells me that getting to know others is a good way. It makes them people, not effigies to be either burnt or seen as money or readership. It adds nuance and texture to life itself.
I also understand that withdrawing is necessary. There are times when talk isn’t appropriate. Somewhere in each interaction is a time for both. I suppose my task is to try and learn when those times come into existence and learn to use them when they are there.
But, I also know that in human existence no one males and island of herself and survives. We are creatures who need each other.
Radha
March 25, 2009 at 7:20 am
“makes and island of herself”
Radha
March 25, 2009 at 7:21 am
Actually, this is a lesbian rights worker, a non trans woman, pretending to be trans to play on my sympathy, writing on hid behalf because we obviously weren’t important enough to pat attention to in the first place. I was unable to locate any trans related credentials at all, other than her claim of transness to me.
For the record, I am certain that Jeffery Dahlmer and others like him were “great guys” too. The bad news is, they had bigger issues that a biased character reference by someone who openly misrepresents themselves in order to manipulate us can possibly address.
To Fuckbiscuit, dead trans female bodies on the deck are just a cutesy abstraction, like the latest Gap fashion to parade in front of her high priced friends, something to trade for gay rights to tax breaks and special treatment.
For us, it’s just a lil different.
This is why there is such a disconnect between the HRC homosexual elite and the manipulative lying apologist toadies like Fuckbiscuit.
Worlds apart, worlds apart.
voz
March 25, 2009 at 7:34 am
and, how the fuck did she get my name???
Duhh..Bil made good on his threat to disclose all information! Lovely!
What an ass.
voz
March 25, 2009 at 8:16 am
:) OK, just because we need one another, doesn’t mean we need HRC and the gay male lobby and ” working-within elite.” LOL
Radha
March 25, 2009 at 8:19 am
Radha, time to come to Jesus on ur involvement with this. HERE. NOW.
voz
March 25, 2009 at 11:49 am
Radha, time to come to Jesus on ur involvement with this. HERE. NOW.
P.S.: Forgot to mention good post!
voz
March 25, 2009 at 12:12 pm
*made an island of herself*
it just floats around :D
dyssonance
March 25, 2009 at 3:25 pm
Alex Blaze has decided to weigh in on the whole controversy. I won’t even go into the mess, but he ends with saying that we should denounce the Matthew Shephard Act if we criticized Bil…
http://www.bilerico.com/2009/03/my_02_on_the_bilericodeath_threat_contro.php
No comments yet. And, I’m too angry to trust myself to make sense.
Lucy
March 26, 2009 at 7:15 am
That doesn’t even make sense.
No one is speaking out in favor of death threats…but no one made a death threat.
Lisa Harney
March 26, 2009 at 7:47 am
“So, in that spirit, I’m hoping these folks who criticized Bil for saying that he’d cooperate with a court order in a possible investigation of a threat of murder directed at a gay person of color will now denounce the Matthew Shepard Act.”
Dumbass. Trans woman blowing off steam at HRC =/ “threat of murder.” Way to try and claim the moral high ground, fuckwad.
Amanda in the South Bay
March 26, 2009 at 8:31 am
-jesus- Hypothetically speaking, if I had a brother he might like herring, but I don’t. wtf, Bil, just -shut up-.
belledame222
March 26, 2009 at 9:45 am
My reply there, since I was specifically mentioned. Ooh the trans borg, we all the same:
What the very fuck. *Bil* is in danger of going to prison now? And you have the gall to call anyone else dramatic. Smashing.
Here is the point, you may choose to continue to miss it if you so choose to.
BIL RAISED THE BLOODY ISSUE OF THE POLICE. That was a threat. A passive-aggressive fucking threat. He didn’t need to do that, but he did.
This whole drama comes from Bil deciding that a trans woman of color was SUCH a bloody threat that clearly invoking The Authorities would be a good idea. For Sammir’s protection. For Bil’s protection.
Nay, for the protection of every HRC staffer, in every town in the US, because as we know any trans woman can get around with the violence quick smart.
Do you see how fucking ridiculous it is that a rhetorical gesture, when made by a trans woman, takes on such a gravitas, such urgency of threat (OMG it’s teh trans women BEING ANGRY) that it needs to be rebuffed by such a threat?
So all this
“So, in that spirit, I’m hoping these folks who criticized Bil for saying that he’d cooperate with a court order in a possible investigation of a threat of murder directed at a gay person of color will now denounce the Matthew Shepard Act.”
is complete twaddle. It is a false equivalent, argumentative bad faith, a massive bloody red herring dunked in red chilli sauce.
The comparison assumes a clear and present danger from Lyssa to Samir, and apparently every HRC staffer in America but not to Lyssa herself. You may wish to look up the meaning of the word “rhetoric,” it might help you realise the patently obvious falsey mcfalse falseness of your whole argument about her comment.
Framing Lyssa as a criminal in this equivalence is misleading at best, inflammatory and disturbing at worst. Woman of color as criminal, ooh there’s an original image.
I mean, do the perpetrators of hate crimes usually need protection from the police? Donna Johnson’s post on the subject made it clear that violent white criminals get the automatic benefit of police doubt. Up to and including Jeffrey Dahmer FFS. The whole point is that Lyssa would not.
The endemic violence against us is the sort of the thing hate crimes legislation is supposed to address. And yes, I am aware that it may be a paper shield, and it may be even be a shield with a target painted on it.
In summary, my sympathy is for those tactics which will put GLBT people (cos funnily enough, I happen to fit more than one of those categories. Oh but you’ve just schooled all those trans and/or brown men and women about intersectionality, I forgot) in the least danger.
No Bilerico poster was in any, but given that Bil raised the topic himself, all this comes from is a cis white man passive-aggressively asserting his own ability to hurt but not be hurt.
And now, I am so done with this bullshit. And by that I mean Bilerico.
queen emily
March 26, 2009 at 9:55 am
O M G
He has gone off the deep end. He is truly insane.
And he just might pull it off. White men can do that, y’know.
voz
March 26, 2009 at 10:16 am
Funny how, instead of asking a trans person to talk about and post on all this to see the other side of things, Bil gets another fucking cis (as far as I know) gay white male.
And he doesn’t see the problem with this.
z
March 26, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Nope. I bet he couldn’t find one, either. I bet even the black gay dudes are walkin away from this one.
In a word: hubris.
and any official word from the HRC is completely…absent. Hmmm…
voz
March 26, 2009 at 1:21 pm
[...] outside Rhode Island Avenue”) continues to be unhappy. But everyone else is also still channelling Duanna Johnson and Christine Sforza in rage. “Seemingly, gay males have forgotten enough what it’s like to be harassed and [...]
There Is No Community « Dented Blue Mercedes
March 26, 2009 at 7:50 pm
I’d say that I can’t believe where this has gone, but I know better because I’ve seen it happen before.
I just want to weigh in on Bilerico. I rarely read Bil because He Doesn’t Get It surrounding sexism and racism and trans issues. I recall a post once where he asked to be educated on feminism and all I could think to suggest was: Use the internet it is your friend.
I’ll just stick with my bi and trans blogs and read the Bilerico writers I like at their personal blogs.
Daomadan
March 27, 2009 at 3:48 pm
yeah, come to think of it pretty much every time i’ve liked or linked to Bilerico it’s been one of the other writers. it’s putting me in mind of Pandagon a bit: if I wanna read Pam I’ll just go read Pam at her own spot.
and yeah, not surprised to hear he pulled “could you read it for me?” wrt feminism as well since he already did it wrt trans issues/people (and apparently nothing took since that was months and months ago).
belledame222
March 27, 2009 at 7:58 pm
It was at the same time, actually.
Lisa Harney
March 27, 2009 at 8:01 pm
Lisa is right. He asked about feminism and trans issues in some post where he wanted us to do his homework for him. He can do his own.
And as belledame said: I rarely read Bil and only read the other writers. Likewise, I don’t read Pandagon because I can read Pam at her own blog.
Daomadan
March 27, 2009 at 9:16 pm
Go here and talk about Bil
http://voz-latina.livejournal.com/1855.html
Lisa, if u want to make a post, by all means. I think it’s a worthy topic.
Bil is good at getting folks to do his work for him, and much of that work includes hurting and marginalizing trans women.
It’s not our job to do his homework for him, but all too often privileged folks leave us messes that we *have* to clean up.
voz
March 27, 2009 at 10:01 pm
Lisa: d’oh, yeah, I get you. sorry.
belledame222
March 28, 2009 at 9:36 am
I just relinked that thread too…think I even commented there.
belledame222
March 28, 2009 at 9:37 am
[...] | Tags: dumbshits, friends, racism, transmisogyny, transphobia If anyone is still following the Bilerico Blogwar blowup, I recently got linked by Dented Blue Mercedes, who was concerned about Lyssa’s original [...]
THREATS « SixToedKitties
March 31, 2009 at 9:54 pm