Gender Reality Denied by Political Bias
Sheila Jeffreys talks about how sex change is urged by gender bias. Looking at her take on lesbianism, it’s certainly clear that her political views couldn’t possibly blind her to the realities of trans people’s lives:
We do think… that all feminists can and should be lesbians. Our definition of a political lesbian is a woman-identified woman who does not fuck men. It does not mean compulsory sexual activity with women.
One of the refrains I read from radical feminists is that trans women are “not men” and are thus women by default just because that’s how the patriarchy works. I disagree with this perspective, but I find it illuminating that one can also find the view that “lesbian” can mean “a woman who does not fuck men,” rather than defined as women who are attracted to and form relationships with women.
In other words, this is a hypocritical stance, never mind what this practice has done to the lesbian community. But, that’s not the point right now, and I’m really writing this post to talk about Sheila Jeffreys’ complaints about why trans people transition for the wrong reasons.
CHIEF Justice Alastair Nicholson has done good work during his 16 years at the Family Court. The recent report on the serious problem of violence from male partners in child custody cases should cement his reputation as a judge who respects the human rights of women and children. But his decision last week to allow a 13-year-old girl to begin a sex change process breaks this tradition. Make no mistake: the decision violates the rights of this child.
The decision means that the girl named “Alex” will embark on a course of female hormone treatment to suppress menstruation, which can be expected to lead to male hormones at 16, and surgery when she reaches 18. The decision abrogates the child’s right to change her mind. And it removes her chance to grow up in a healthy female body and develop her identity long before an age when she’d be considered old enough to drive or drink alcohol.
She’s talking about Alex, a 13-year old who had to go through the Australian court system to receive treatments to stave off puberty long enough to give him a chance to live as a boy and ensure that this was the right course. Actual testosterone wouldn’t be administered until he was 16. Judge Nicholson approved the treatment for Alex, it did not mandate the treatment. First of all, if Alex did change his mind between 13 and 16, he could and have a normal puberty. If he changes his mind between 16 and 18, he could just stop testosterone and live a normal life. Surgery’s really the only irreversible step, but by then Alex would have five years to change his mind, and he’s still not required by the court to have surgery if he doesn’t want it.
The other thing here is that Sheila denies that trans people are often aware of our identities well before puberty. Alex’s wishes and identity here aren’t important to Ms. Jeffreys, however. Just her ability to have access to hormone replacement therapy. The phrase “healthy female body” is also standard transphobic panicmongering, as it introduces the idea that trans people seek to mutilate completely healthy bodies without bothering to acknowledge why we seek surgery, or even considering the dehumanizing language that “mutilate healthy bodies” entails. Once we have surgery, we’re mutilated, unhealthy creatures.
There are a number of cases in which men, for instance, have come to regret reassignment surgery later in life, and become reconciled to being heterosexual or gay men. But they cannot reclaim their penises and testes. Treating this child as a boy with all the authority of medicine at 13 won’t permit her to keep her options open. Male hormone treatment at 16 will narrow her options further, since it will begin irreversible physical changes and make it harder to change her mind. Both the female and male hormones may adversely affect her health.
Now Sheila descends into hyperbole. There are men who have sought hormones and surgery who made a mistake and later regretted it. “A number of cases” is an exaggeration, however, especially compared to the number of trans women who are happy with transition and surgical results. However, pointing out that the majority of men and women who undergo voluntary mastectomies or vaginoplasties are happy with the results would undermine Ms. Jeffreys’ crusade. She also erases those who successfully transition in their teens.
The medical profession’s belief in the efficacy of female hormones delivered as hormone replacement therapy, for instance, has been seriously undermined. Treatment with male hormones, which has to continue for life, has risks of liver damage and the shortening of her life.
This is more panicmongering. It is true that there are risks to hormone replacement therapy, which is why it’s standard practice now to conduct HRT under an endocrinologist’s supervision, or at least a GP who specializes in dealing with HRT. It’s normal to require blood tests and liver panel tests every three months, as well as to educate the patient as to the signs of harmful side effects, such as liver damage or (for estrogen) deep vein thrombosis. Because of the relatively high doses, they have to be and usually are monitored.
This decision was reached through an inquisitorial, rather than adversarial, process. Only those elements of the medical profession who support the idea of hormonal and surgical treatment for “gender identity disorder” (GID) were called by the court. They were relied on in reaching its decision as if they speak the “truth”. In fact, they should be seen as products of their time and the ideological biases of male dominance.
Indeed, their “truth” should be regarded as political opinion. They rely on the notion that there can be a “female” mind in a male’s body and vice versa. Their solution is to use chemicals, amputations, castrations and sterilisations to make the bodies of GID patients fit with their interpretation of what’s happening in the patient’s mind.
Sheila seems to believe that there’s a large body of medical evidence that contradicts the existence and treatment of gender identity disorder/transsexualism. Or rather, she believes her politics trump medical professionals who specialize in treating GID. That the idea of a female mind in a male’s body just isn’t real, solely because her theory says it can’t happen. Of course, her theory hasn’t been tested, simply asserted. It’s a theory based on the politics of destroying gender - and thus the patriarchy - and not on any scientific basis. It also erases the lived experiences and realities that trans people have to navigate on a daily basis. What we say about ourselves - what Alex says about himself is not to be considered, because it contradicts the theory.
Gender identity clinics can only diagnose the condition using the understandings of gender that exist at this time and place in history. Feminists like myself envisage a time beyond gender when there is no correct way to behave according to body shape. In such a world, it would not be possible to conceive of a gender identity clinic. The idea of GID is a living fossil that is, an idea from the time when there was considered to be a correct behaviour for particular body types.
Those with penises were supposed to play with particular toys and show “masculinity” such as desires to play aggressive team games and show little emotion. Those with vaginas were supposed to show “femininity” such as desires to be self-denying, do unpaid housework and wear high-heeled shoes. Gender identity clinics enforce correct gender behaviour through retraining, or through hormones and surgery. In this way, the medical profession can be seen to perform a political function as an arm of male dominance.
And here she establishes her theory: That GID diagnosis and treatment is based on the idea that there are correct ways to behave based on physical sex, and that those who do not fit the male norm must switch to female, and those who do not fit the female norm must switch to male. She’s just erased feminine gay men, drag queens, male transvestites, and butch lesbians in two paragraphs. People who - assuming they’re not taking on those identities to deal with transsexualism - violate those gender norms she’s talking about. This is because no one ever went to a doctor and said “I played with dolls as a boy, and I like to wear dresses, and I think this means I should be a woman.” If Sheila Jeffreys were to familiarize herself with the work of Harry Benjamin, she might discover there’s more going on here than her theory that transsexualism is about conforming to stereotypical gender roles and nothing more.
To be fair, it is true that medical professionals who specialize in gender have (and probably still do) focus on trans people’s ability to adopt stereotypical traits of femininity or masculinity to judge whether they’re really transsexual, but this is a problem with the system, not with the existence of transsexual people. This was a self-reinforcing process because the requirements for getting treatment were both strict and available to transsexual people seeking to transition. Since it was necessary to present one’s self as stereotypically masculine or (especially) feminine to get treatment, transsexual people did this. But that doesn’t mean that this was who we really were, it’s just what we had to do to get medical support for transitioning.
But this information is inconvenient to Sheila Jeffreys, who sees transsexualism as an enemy to be destroyed, not a real problem that we must accommodate.
The reasons why adult women seek reassignment surgery stem from the inequality of women, from male violence and from lesbian oppression. Women who have been abused in childhood seek reassignment so that they can escape the bodies in which they were abused and gain the status of the perpetrator in order to feel safe. Some want to gain privileges they perceive to be open to men. And many feel unable to love women in the bodies of women because of societal repression and hatred of lesbians.
Feminists seek to transform society so that male violence against women and girls will end and so that women may have equal rights and love women while remaining in their healthy female bodies.
But women who seek reassignment believe that a physical solution will solve their individual problems.
Rather, it compounds the damage. The Family Court should not be recommending this solution for a child.
She then goes on to make an assertion about trans men - that they seek SRS because women are not treated equally in society, that it’s all about escaping abuse and gaining status, becoming the oppressor. Again, she refuses to acknowledge trans men’s voices when they tell us who they are and why they transitioned, she has to frame transitioning in terms of patriarchal oppression.
This article compounds the damage - the damage that radical feminism inflicts on trans people every chance it gets. It erases us as individual human beings with a condition that requires treatment in order for us to live and thrive, and replaces us with ciphers that ape the “wrong” gendered behaviors and seek to transition to legitimately access those behaviors. It especially erases trans men and replaces them with women who can’t stand to be oppressed in patriarchal society.
Sheila Jeffreys should refrain from writing about trans people until she bothers to learn about us and engage us as people, not as tokens for her political prejudices.
November 16, 2007 at 6:56 pm
I’m just glad the judge didn’t listen to her.
A very good friend of mine began her transition from male to female in her teens and, at 28, isn’t even close to regretting it.
November 16, 2007 at 7:04 pm
What gets me is the “theeenk of the chiiiiiildreeeeeen!” tone in this piece, where she sets herself up as Alex’s protector, as if the court is demanding that he take hormones and transition, and that every step is set in stone.
She also neglects to mention that Alex was raised as a boy by his father.
November 16, 2007 at 7:59 pm
Well hell, Lisa, why let a loving parent who has known and loved him his entire life have any say, not to mention Alex himself, when Sheila clearly knows best?
November 16, 2007 at 8:02 pm
Absolutely. Sheila knows everything about gender, because she thinks about how she wants to destroy it real hard.
The reason it went to court at all was that Alex’s father had died, and he was basically dropped into the foster care system. The court was guaranteeing Alex’s rights by allowing this treatment because he didn’t have parents to advocate on his behalf. But, clearly, Sheila felt it was best to only present a part of the story.
November 16, 2007 at 10:57 pm
i find it interesting how language is used to sway opinions. the term “mutilation” is a powerful and loaded word, and can be used in a way that is packed with so many stereotypes and assumptions.
we all have to do what we feel we must to survive in the patriarchy. i altered my body such that i can live a better life. one man’s mutilation is anothers savior.
i have to wonder how many minds have been mutilated by this vitriol.
November 16, 2007 at 11:06 pm
Yeah, I found an old discussion on Taking Steps in which someone compared hormones and surgery to “scorched earth” and the “Khmer Rouge’s year zero,” and insisted that these were emotionally neutral comparisons.
And of course, there’s Janice Raymond saying that trans women “rape women’s bodies.” Mary Daly comparing us to Frankenstein’s monster, and so on. It’s all language meant to other us and distance us from the real people.
Anyway, we’re not supposed to survive the patriarchy, we’re supposed to be glorious martyrs for the revolution, impaling ourselves on the patriarchy’s spears by defying the gender binary. Trying to live a normal life is unacceptable - only real people get to do that. As metaphors, we have a duty.
November 17, 2007 at 9:41 am
yeah, the whole idea that trans is a “political movement” was created not by trans people, who see it as a medical procedure to improve the quality of our lives, but by our adversaries, who would rather just see us disappear. preferably with our heads on the tips of those spears. semantics, ya gotta love it.
November 17, 2007 at 9:47 am
This decision was reached through an inquisitorial, rather than adversarial, process. Only those elements of the medical profession who support the idea of hormonal and surgical treatment for “gender identity disorder” (GID) were called by the court. They were relied on in reaching its decision as if they speak the “truth”. In fact, they should be seen as products of their time and the ideological biases of male dominance.
I’m surprised she didn’t mention said doctors making small fortunes out of SRS while she was at it. Transexual people are dupes of the medical profession as well as the patriarchy - it is often written.
i have to wonder how many minds have been mutilated by this vitriol.
And still are. Unless something’s changed recently Jeffreys still lectures 2nd and 3rd year students on Sexual Politics and International Gender Politics at the University of Melbourne. She also supervises PHD and Honours and MA students in these subjects and on International Feminist Political Thought. Oh, and she’s also supervised PHD students working on the topic of lesbian identity.This information is from her staff profile which was published on the net in September 2004.
November 17, 2007 at 1:31 pm
WTF is wrong with the Vancouver Women Shelter? Are they just another wack job group finding haven in BC (Did you know that the largest devotee site - men who are sexually aroused by pictures and movies of women in wheelchairs, particularly women struggling to transfer, etc is here in BC, yup, number 1 worldwide - also there are THREE different anti-gay teaching in schools groups JUST in Richmond). Back to your topic. The problem is that if the Vancouver Women’s Shelter did the research and went to places like archives of the UK group Press for Change, that post operative transsexuals are one of the most highly watched and followed up groups. And that constant changes to the protocol are made so that now, the protocol has a much higher success rate (I believe between 98-99%) than ANY other medical protocol - probably there are 10 times the number of people who took Chemo and “Changed their mind” - obviously the Vancouver women’s shelter doesn’t need to take up this cause nor the 100 to 1,000 times more people who feel they shouldn’t have recieved floride treatment as a child.
The clear stats show that transsexual teens WILL often go to extreme action, including suicide and suicide attempt rather than face hitting puberty as the gender they are not. It seems odd that in all the rightousness of the arguement, and what is “best” for Alex, they treat Alex as the unthinking unperson that they accuse the patriarchy of treating women for hundreds of years. Is Alex incapable of feeling pain, of starving himself to eliminate menstration (as has been show in other t-males), in suicide attempt, in self destructive behavoir or is Alex supposed to sit there (like a “Good little girl”) until the adults decide when Alex is allow to think, to feel, to express how he is as a person.
These arguements were made about sexual orientation the whole “it’s a phase”, “Children don’t know their mind”, “Just experimenting” - now days, we know if your son tells you he’s gay……he’s probably gay and if you wait until 18 or 19 then he has already had sex a few times and all you have done is made yourself out of the loop because you are incapable of seeing what is in front of you.
As others as Lisa point out, there are years and years for Alex to decide exactly what decisions will be made and how they will be enacted. The doctors are following a protocol which has proven to be effective, the Judge is acting in the best interests of Alex, whether that happens to agree with the theory you wrote a paper on isn’t really relevant is it?
November 17, 2007 at 2:40 pm
Still want to come to Canada, Lisa? ;-)
Great fisking, btw. Will be part of tonight’s blogwhoring linkfarm. (Anyone else who has bloggy wares they feel are worthy of solicitation can feel free to do so in comments. :-))
Tangentially related: Columbia Journalism Review: The Rhetoric Beat.
November 17, 2007 at 7:07 pm
Nexyjo: You just reminded me that I need to post about gender essentialism and other fun things we’re accused of fomenting just by existing.
Cicely: Yeah, Jeffreys is a real piece of work. I liked looking back at that “Denigrate Lipstick” thread on IBTP with all the transmisogynistic garbage from Lucky and Mar Iguana, and seeing a few posters get angry about how some people were saying that Jeffreys’ transphobia was bad.
Because, of course, you can never ever criticize other feminists…unless they’re trans women, or sex positive, or women of color, or don’t agree with the party line…
Elizabeth: Yeah, the whole Vancounver Rape Relief thing is just so stupid. They really do spend a lot of bandwidth justifying their rejection of Kimberly Nixon, and blame the whole mess on Kimberly because them being bigots couldn’t be the cause of anything.
And I agree, she’s tokenizing Alex as a victim of the Australian justice system, rather than taking even a second to try to find out what Alex wants. Jeffreys’ apparently really believes that it’s possible to force people to transition in this modern world. Also, agreed on the orientation.
Matt: Yes, I still do. I’ve heard some really awful things about one corner of their health system (Victoria Island), some other awful things about how the medical system treats trans people (Blanchard, specifically), but ultimately, things seem generally better than in America.
November 17, 2007 at 8:12 pm
Lets see…
I’m a transsexual guy who is not masculine at all (I love being a flaming fag), I was never really abused or anything (I got ignored and bullied a bit when I was young, but mostly it was because I was intelligent and had speech problems; not because of my assigned sex), I like guys a lot and am rarely interested in women, and I really doubt I’ll be getting much male privilege (at least not straight, cisgender male privilege) by transitioning.
Heh, and she’d really hate me; I’ve been well, not getting help to rid myself of disphoria, but instead helped to somewhat lessen the impact of my disphoria by my cis*male boyfriend and especially by having sex with him. It hasn’t changed my gender/internal sex identity, but it has most definitely helped with my depression and I don’t feel quite so uncomfortable in my own skin.
November 17, 2007 at 11:35 pm
I know it’s not the point but this? We do think… that all feminists can and should be lesbians. Our definition of a political lesbian is a woman-identified woman who does not fuck men. It does not mean compulsory sexual activity with women is just whetting my appetite for that post you keep threatening on this topic.
I mean I mean, the disdain for lesbian sex in that phrase “compulsory sex with women” I mean I mean the disgust for lesbian sex in that statement, the implicit locating of actual, um what are we now exactly we need an adjective apparently — “sexual lesbians” — as predators who might try to “compel” these heterosexual political lesbians to have sex with us (eeeew!), because that is so much what we’re all about, wanting to compel straight women to let us fuck them. Maybe WE shouldn’t be allowed into the MWMF ourselves, because our predatory sexualness might trigger some of the political lesbians who aren’t actually attracted to women (ewww!!) but name themselves lesbians anyway.
I had a joke about “lesbian bed DOA” but after reading that again, it no longer seems funny to me.
November 17, 2007 at 11:45 pm
That’s not unlike the arguments against BDSM people in the festival, and I would be unsurprised if there weren’t some temptation to exclude butches and femmes (or rather, an attempt to discourage them). I know that there was a real effort to stamp out butch/femme expression in lesbian culture during the 80s.
And yeah, okay, I’ll try to get the political lesbian post together in the next couple of days. I need to dig up some stuff I already wrote in e-mail, plus there’s Karla Mantilla’s article in Off Our Backs where she exhorts lesbians to recruit for the Cause…
BTW, I’m sorry i haven’t responded yet to your e-mail. A lot to digest, and I’ve been digesting. :)
November 17, 2007 at 11:45 pm
looking at that comment after posting — wow, look at that, I totally spoke from a cisgendered lesbian perspective in that statement Maybe WE shouldn’t be allowed into the MWMF ourselves. Speaking about all lesbians (including you Lisa), but then overwriting that to implicitly speak about cis lesbians because hello, WE are not all welcomed there to begin with … wow, that was fucked up of me. I apologize.
November 18, 2007 at 2:49 am
Sheila Jeffreys really is a horrible theorist. She’s anti-trans, scathing of femmes and butches alike but then cries crocodile tears for all the butches leaving the community by transitioning. And obviously, men are RIGHT OUT. I’m fairly sure the only person who’s ok with her is Sheila. And even then…
Besides her massive transphobia, there’s the requisite stuff about porn and lipstick, she’s a big promoter of political lesbianism (NO woman should be inconvenient enough to the revolution to actually sleep with men), and considers body modification “mutilation by proxy.” I believe Belle would file her under “tinfoil hat theories” if she weren’t taken so seriously :(
November 18, 2007 at 2:54 am
Michelle, thank you.
Em, that’s a perfect description. It bothers me that so many radical feminist “theorists” are so fixated on stuff that doesn’t actually harm anyone as counterrevolutionary. It just makes the movement dogmatic, and hamstrings it with inane and contradictory objectives, as well as justifies gender essentialism with one hand while insisting that gender essentialism is evil with the other.
November 18, 2007 at 3:10 am
oh, sheila. STFU. and while you’re at it, get out of my university!
it’s good that you’re criticising her, but at the same time (like queen emily says) she’s such a nutter that i marvel how anyone can actually take her seriously!
re: alex is interesting, actually, and if i can find some good discussions i’ll link you up. it’s also interesting in its specificity to australian law and the local state laws and medical institutions. here’s one overview of the debate.
sheila jeffreys also publically states that janice raymond’s transsexual empire is a “wonderful book”. yuck.
If he changes his mind between 16 and 18, he could just stop testosterone and live a normal life. Surgery’s really the only irreversible step
i just wanted to point out that this is not entirely true, as testosterone does effect some changes (notably the voice dropping) that are not reversible.
November 18, 2007 at 4:22 am
Yeah, but it’s possible to detransition after T therapy and live a fairly normal life, which was the point I was going for.
Thank you for the overview link - it’s amazing the stupid shit people will say about stuff they don’t understand.
November 18, 2007 at 11:48 am
“I’ll try to get the political lesbian post together in the next couple of days.”
Please do, because you rock.
“I need to dig up some stuff I already wrote in e-mail, plus there’s Karla Mantilla’s article in Off Our Backs where she exhorts lesbians to recruit for the Cause…”
JDKASJFKLFJKDALSJ SDLKJ DSAJLKFJ REALLY?!?
*wants entirely too badly to see this now*
November 18, 2007 at 11:57 am
YA, RLY!
November 18, 2007 at 5:16 pm
oh, swell. Now we’re supposed to recruit and we can’t even use the temptation of sex. i’d -never- get my toaster that way. well, real lesbians probably don’t eat icky wheat or cooked food, anyway. just gnaw a couple of quinoa grains and then off for a nice march.
November 18, 2007 at 5:20 pm
But there’s loving tenderness and sweet feminine sisterhood!
That’s so much better than raunchy patriarchal sex.
Also, we’re allowed granola.
November 18, 2007 at 5:56 pm
So first the disclaimer: I myself disagree with the biology/born this way argument for sexual orientation. I think its political function is a reaction to homophobia/heterosexism and accepts gayness as deviant –the underlying statement of this as political strategy is “I/we wouldn’t be this way except, see, I/we can’t help it, so accept us!” Personally I don’t think that “why we are this way” is relevant and going there is back to the discourse of how we are deviant no matter what side of the supposed argument we’re on.
That said, this essay is some sick SICK extra-twisted heterosexism and homophobia, for our viewing pleasure!
If people could say, heterosexuality sucks, and that’s why I’m gay, then we could begin to see more clearly that patriarchy sucks, that male-female gender relations suck, that marriage sucks, etc.
Because hmm, our lives exist to fuel some theoretical movement construct — Not to well, actually live, because THAT privilege is reserved for the real humans.
Maori tribespeople
Oh, and IMO someone needs to develop a Bingo game of radical feminist insanity nonsense that we can play when reading this stuff.
Like: “Random use of random non-white person/group soley to prove a point” is one of the boxes.
So it would be like, instead of “$&%^$%(*)$%^%$^&*!!!!!”
It would be “Hey! I got Bingo!”
November 18, 2007 at 6:09 pm
Karla Mantilla’s also the author of the article that claims trans women flashed their penises at cis women at MWMF as justification for keeping trans women out of MWMF.
Anyway, I I don’t even care anymore whether GLBT is biological or sociological or whatever anymore. It shouldn’t matter at all - we are who we are, and we have to live with that. The origins don’t matter, and if homosexuality should be condemnable if it’s a choice, than most assuredly christianity must also be condemnable because it really is a choice.
I also think that “why we are this way” allows those hostile to you to put your identity up for debate, it effectively surrenders to them setting the terms of the discussion.
November 18, 2007 at 7:40 pm
I agree that origins shouldn’t matter, we are who we are. I’d never argued as passionately about my own understanding that my lesbianism is innate as I began to do - from an emotional place - when I first came up against so called feminist allies who were arguing not just that the origin didn’t matter, but most importantly, that it was a choice I made at some point without me or anyone else knowing exactly when or why. (and so a choice any and every woman can make - and ultimately “should’ make.) It’s the choice bit that’s the problem for me. But that’s also derided as a ‘pity me, I had no choice, I’d rather be straight’ position - which for me it is most definitely not. Being me - the lesbian I am - is what makes life work and what has given me all the thrills, joy and happiness I’ve ever known in my intimate relationships. What I want *in addition* is equal human and civil rights.
The feminists who argue that sexual orientation is a choice - for us ALL - can’t make room for even the possibility that they’re wrong. That would make recruitment rather difficult. Arguing that homosexuality is a choice hasn’t helped the conservatives eradicate it - only to punish it - as these feminists would wish to punish heterosexuality if they were in a position to do so in their ill or non-defined feminist utopia. (And whatever power they have now to discredit it - they do use.) They’re just barging on through to their murky destination no matter what.
eg - Look at the piss weak explanation for why men, without knowing it, ‘choose’ to be gay in Karla’s essay. Hey, either they dominate women completely and have a consummate sense of entitlement as the rulers of the universe in the patriarchal hetero-supremacist world, or they don’t. You can’t have it both ways. Not to mention the complete absence of individuality in all of it.
November 18, 2007 at 8:44 pm
Not sure if I made this important point in the previous post. It’s that we can’t get away from the issue of ‘choice’. We can agree amongst ourselves that it doesn’t matter in terms of acceptability and equal rights for minorities (as opposed to ‘deviants’) til we’re blue in the face, but our enemies from any direction are so reliant on the belief that we choose our sexual orientation - or to transition out of prescribed gender roles, as the arguement goes - that they can’t let it go. They can’t afford to.
If they admit to the possibilty that people don’t have choice about these things, the only path to their respective perfect worlds is to search for the biological source - be it a single gene (unlikely) or a multiplicity of physical factors - whatever - and tamper away in the lab until they get the desired result. Am I right? I know conservatives are prepared to go there. Are some radical feminists? Shouldn’t we ask them? I do know one who fantasises and would like to write a book about a mysterious fatal disease that only attacks males in some future scenario in which women have achieved the ability to reproduce without them.
If heterosexuality is certified ‘deviant’ from feminist goals so ‘wrong’, and homosexuality is certified ‘deviant’ from patriarchal ones so ‘wrong’ (and bi-sexuals? you’re half wrong!) - something’s gone horribly wrong on the road to utopia.
I do see why we have to say there are sexual minorities, it doesn’t matter how we came to be, we are as entitled to free, full and rewarding lives as everyone else is, but I can’t accept that the negative ‘we can’t help it’ is the only phrase or ‘mood’ to describe the biological origin possibility. We couldn’t help being born at all, after all. Didn’t you ever say to a parent ‘I didn’t ask to be born!!! ‘ And aren’t you even sometimes glad you were?
November 19, 2007 at 2:12 pm
Anyway, I I don’t even care anymore whether GLBT is biological or sociological or whatever anymore. It shouldn’t matter at all - we are who we are, and we have to live with that. The origins don’t matter, and if homosexuality should be condemnable if it’s a choice, than most assuredly christianity must also be condemnable because it really is a choice.
I also think that “why we are this way” allows those hostile to you to put your identity up for debate, it effectively surrenders to them setting the terms of the discussion.
****
right on.
November 19, 2007 at 7:45 pm
Michelle, Lisa, belle,
Essentially, if you’ll pardon the word - I agree with you all. Acknowledging the proverbial bee in bonnet I have about this.
November 19, 2007 at 11:34 pm
Yeah, the problem I have is that when it comes to debate, “whether it’s a choice” becomes the matter of debate, which stops short of reaching the point where “it doesn’t matter, we deserve civil rights.”
I don’t want to assert anything about the origins of homosexuality over and over again, but I do realize that those who are not our friends want to use that as the pivot point.
November 20, 2007 at 7:51 am
Thanks to all of you for articulating pretty much exactly what i wanted to say, only more articulately…
I have this really awkward, conflicted relationship with radical feminism. On the one hand, as a body of theory it was a revelation to me, it made the patriarchal world make sense like nothing i encountered before it had.
On the other hand, it comes out with shit like this - so bad that it almost makes me want to turn against not just rad feminism, but all feminism…
I don’t know why people have such a fear of doing irreversible things to people’s bodies anyway. In this universe, time goes one way - ultimately, everything we do to our bodies is irreversible. And it has always been obvious to me that if there is a major discrepancy between body and mind, it’s the body that should be altered to fit the mind and not vice versa. Maybe that’s rooted in the sort-of-Cartesian-sort-of-Christian-gnostic idea i grew up with that only the mind is the real person, and the body is merely a(n ultimately irrelevant) “shell”, which i now no longer fully agree with… but, well, when someone is fucking suicidal simply because of the shape and/or hormone balance of their body, and it’s proven that altering those aspects of their body will completely “cure” them (the only kind of clinical depression, in fact, that can be reliably cured by physical treatments)… if you want to achieve a world in which gender and body shape doesn’t matter, how the fuck can you be against that? Sheer unthinking bigotry is IMO the only possible answer.
Oh yeah, how about the autopsy studies of people who killed themselves due to gender dysphoria which showed the hormone-receptor organs in their brains were the same shape as those of a “normal” person of their identified gender? (sorry, don’t have a link, was told this by my FtM friend who is a biology graduate)
Ironically, there’s a lot i share with Jeffries - androphobia and very similar preferences for actual sex acts among them. But just because *I* like a certain type of sex or a certain type of relationship does not give me any kind of right to prescribe that as an ideal for anyone else…
If only there was such a thing as a radical libertarian feminism…
November 20, 2007 at 12:32 pm
Thanks for the post, Shiva - and thank you for dropping by. :)
When it comes to radical feminism, it’s really hard for me to say. I know of radical feminists who are not only not transphobic, but activally against transphobia. I also know that many of the most virulently transphobic radfems are considered (online at least) to be a fringe. I also know that friends of mine in England say it’s not a fringe, and that they encounter it pretty openly.
And yes, this kind of writing does no favors for all of feminism, although feminism has a mixed history when it comes to inclusion.
I know about that article - it’s not conclusive and may be correlative rather than causative. It is interesting that every single brain examined had that, and it’d be nice if a wider study were done.
November 21, 2007 at 3:12 pm
I really don’t get this insistence that trans people are transitioning because they are outside traditional gender roles - ‘failed men’, ’scared women’, and so on. Has she never met a tough MTF bicycle repairwoman, or a gentle FTM primary school teacher? I have, and I’m not the one who’s out there presuming to be an expert on other people’s lives. Come to think, has she done any research or observational studies on trans people at all?
One other awful, cringeworthy feminist writer who does this is Julie Bindel, who is, like, Jeffrey’s biggest (only?) fan. (nb: that first link is horribly transphobic and the second is everything-phobic).
November 21, 2007 at 3:20 pm
Oh, yeah, Julie Bindel. She has an even more transphobic article from 2004 that raised a bit of protest, and even got her to troll a forum with one or two sockpuppets in order to defend herself.
I believe a lot of the theory about trans people is “science by assertion,” in that the people writing it have already made up their minds and don’t really care about the realities involved, or believe they can clearly see and understand those realities.
November 21, 2007 at 6:53 pm
Oh god. *cringing*
She seems incapable of differentiating between behavioural traits and identities. Not to mention that - like, funnily enough, the MSM she otherwise hates - her thinking about trans* people is obsessively materialist; what shape your body is and what clothes you’re wearing is all that registers. Gah. :/
And then, the lovely white middle-class h8-on for butches and femmes. With feminists like this, who needs the patriarchy?
November 21, 2007 at 7:03 pm
Lots of anti-trans feminists do that. They define trans women solely by our breasts, genitalia (whether we’ve had surgery or not), clothing, cosmetics, and behavior - and not even our real all of those things, but assumptions about them. It’s really kind of revealing, and not a little misogynistic.
I love it when I’m informed that womanhood is more than wearing a dress and having tits, because, you know, I couldn’t possibly figure that out after having those tits and that dress (figuratively speaking) for 20 years.
I think during the BBC debate, Julie Bindel said something about resisting the desire to transition herself. I have no idea if this is true or not, and would love to find a recording to confirm it.
March 22, 2008 at 3:25 pm
[...] I already responded to Sheila’s uninformed criticism of that case, but to repeat the basics: [...]