Sex, Lies, Transmisogyny, and the Heteronormativity of BDSM, pt. 1
Going back to the “Questioning Transgender Politics” well, I find Sex, Lies, and Feminism. This particular article is useful, because it shows one of the transmisogynistic “WBW policy” supporters comparing the inclusion of BDSM practitioners with the exclusion of trans women, allowing for some contrasting oppression . . . which turns out to be exactly the same.
First, I want to say that I’m not a supporter of MichFest, and I wish that anyone who is a trans woman or who considers herself an ally to trans women would stop going. I know that there was a boycott, and that it ended in 2005, but I am uncomfortable with the idea of allies who willingly give money to someone who makes it clear she does not see trans women as “real women.” I also feel that the policy sets an example that legitimizes the creation of DV and rape shelters, lesbian spaces, and other women’s spaces as “WBW-only,” or as I shall refer to it, “stop contaminating our womanly purity with your presence, you dirty trannie” policies, or “trans-exclusive” for short. The idea that all the women at MWMF bond primarily over having been raised as girls is suspicious, simply because that is the most convenient way to define trans women out of the festival. From talking to women who have attended the festival, they talk more generally of just being around women and not having to deal with the stuff women have to deal with every day, and that’s not dependent on growing up female.
Charlotte Croson starts with an argument depressingly familiar to those of us who have been watching the ENDA debacle:
The debate about sado-masochistic practice (S/M) at Festival has been a recurring issue. It has a new urgency in light of right wing attacks on Festival over the past year. These attacks are ostensibly aimed at sexual practices “harmful to children.” S/M sex has been - and is - displayed as exhibit number one. In truth the attacks are aimed at all women: the tactic being to make all lesbian sexuality no different from S/M, drawing no distinction between S/M and lesbian sex in any non-hierarchical form. For the Festival community, the attacks have again brought into sharp focus fundamental questions about women’s political and social community: who defines the interests of our community? Is it in our interests as women who love women to embrace, or at least leave unchallenged, S/M and Camp Trans/transgender politics? Independent of those attacks, what should we make of S/M and transgender politics(1): are they otherwise compatible with our community’s interests?
She talks about right wing attacks on the festival, and how they’re focusing on BDSM to represent lesbian sexuality. She then questions whether BDSM practice should be part of the community, whether they should be thrown under the bus because they serve as a weak point for the right wing to attack. She is discussing the supposed necessity of capitulating to hostile politics to increase lesbian acceptance. Or, as Alix Dobkin said in The Emperor’s New Gender, “isn’t being/creating our own individual version of a woman what lesbians have always been about?”
Okay, I couldn’t help myself. But seriously, should the lesbian community exclude those who make the easiest targets? Or should the lesbian community close ranks and protect all all lesbians? Believe me, I know which lesbian community I’d prefer to be in. However, this paragraph sets the tone for her essay: Lesbians are under siege!
Given that the women who engage in BDSM have been subjected to similar (but lesser) discrimination that trans women have, you’d think that maybe she’d talk about how trans women also give the lesbian community a bad name, somehow. This could not be further from the truth: She conflates Camp Trans with the right wing.
Defining our own interests is of paramount political importance for us, both as lesbians and as women. It is equally important that our community have safe space in which to engage in that process of definition. As if the right wing attacks weren’t enough of a challenge to that safe space, there is also Camp Trans - literally right across the road. From there Camp Trans activists, like the right wing activists, have attempted to define our interests as women as a function of how they define themselves. Perhaps more egregiously, Camp Trans also defines us as women in reference to how they define themselves as transgendered. In both cases, Festival space - safe space for women - has been disrupted by these external pressures.
I’m not sure what she means by “Camp Trans also defines us as women in reference to how they define themselves as transgendered,” but I have to assume this is based in the usual “What I believe about trans people is 1000% more valid than what they say about themselves” rhetoric that comes from radical feminists and “political lesbians.” Her linking of Camp Trans to the right wing is deliberate - she wants her readers to think of homophobes, misogynists, fundamentalist christians and their ilk when they think of trans women. She wants trans women defined as the outsider, the enemy, not someone who can (and does) share common cause with women and feminism, and many of whom are lesbians ourselves.
Her next paragraph makes it clear that she does not consider Camp Trans and the BDSM movement as having any stake in women’s interests, or rather that trying to define ourselves (in terms of our identity or our kinks) as being a part of women’s interests is unacceptable. She defines sexuality and gender identity as tools of male dominance, which then allows her to say that trans women and the lesbians who practice BDSM have a stake in male dominance. This is pretty convenient, as it allows her to shortcut any real analysis or need to understand either group.
Her next paragraph is ironically titled “Myth and Tactics.” This is appropriate, since it’s filled with myth about trans women and BDSM. She complains that there’s opposition to discussing these two groups in anything but positive terms. This is just a rephrase of the right wing’s political correctness argument, or “You won’t let me be mean to you!” This is ironic, because she’s trying to conflate trans women with the right wing, and using right wing tactics to do so - but then, bigoted language is never imaginative. It always takes the same forms. She earnestly writes that the only reason anyone might criticize negative views of trans women and BDSM is to silence any opposition. I mean, it couldn’t possibly have anything to do with objecting to lies about who we are and what we do, right? We’re just being too mean to them for not allowing them to openly speak their hatred and disgust. Of course, this assumes we actually have the power to do so. Spend one hour reading the MWMF forum and you will see just how little cis women are silenced when they express their anti-trans or anti-BDSM bigotry. Of course, one of those is easier to find than the other, but both have a history.
And that’s really the core of it - we object to them being mean to us, and that’s bad, and our objections are somehow mean to them - meaning that we don’t have the right to be angry about being misrepresented, demonized, slandered, and libeled. We don’t have the right to stand up and demand that we be treated with respect. Claiming our rights - our human rights - to be treated with respect is a “silencing” tactic.
She spends the rest of the paragraph establishing her version of the BDSM and Camp Trans positions on separatism, lesbian separatism, etc, criticising the form that the arguments allegedly take, and dismissing the validity of those arguments - for example, she claims that Camp Trans activists accuse trans-exclusive policy supporters of gender essentialism and gender fascism. In doing so, she brings them into her article without any context, and presents them as if they are self-evidently spurious. Having once pointed out gender essentialism on the MWMF forum, I am compelled to point out that it was in response to another poster claiming that she felt “male energy” coming from a supposed trans woman who had entered the Festival. Personally, I believe that if you’re going to insist that gender is a social construct, that you shouldn’t be using language like “male energy” to describe anything. Male energy itself implies that there’s something innate and essential about being male, and also that that there probably is “female energy” - something innate and essential about being female. Of course, arguments against trans women being women are rooted in essentialism, which is why transmisogynistic feminists spend so much time defending their interpretation - they know they’re on shaky ground when they both claim that gender is a social construct and that it is impossible for someone to be born in one sex but be comfortable and happy in the other. In other words, the cis ladies doth protest too much, methinks.
She goes on to discuss “Minorities and Rights.” She writes:
In the last several years self-identified “sex-positive” and “gender-queer” activists have formed an alliance. The alliance is not all that surprising, given the correspondence of gender ideology between the two. Each group claims to be a minority within women’s community that is discriminated against by the larger body of women/lesbians. S/M practitioners place themselves as a “sexual minority” within the presumptively “normal” lesbian sexuality of Festival. Transgender activists claim they are “gender” minorities within the presumptively “gender normal” women who attend Festival. Collectively they argue that they are deprived of the “right” to practice their sexuality and gender and that the reason they are not welcome at Festival is their transgressive views about sexuality and gender.
She doesn’t want to admit or fails to realize that there’s so many reasons for minorities to form coalitions, not the least of which is common experiences. For example, when two groups that overlap (yes, some trans people are into BDSM, some are lesbians, etc) and have a common problem, it is beneficial to ally to deal with that problem. In this case, both groups are relentlessly mischaracterized, dehumanized, and discriminated against by certain factions in Feminism - like the more extreme radical feminists who believe that all porn is rape and trans women rape women’s bodies by taking hormones. No, it couldn’t be that we have bigots like Charlotte Croson breathing down all our necks, it has to be because we share some kind of mythical gender ideology.
I also like how she implies that BSDM practitioners and trans women aren’t minorities, all the while arguing that it is right and natural to discriminate against and exclude us from the rest of women’s culture. A dictionary I checked has this to say:
Main Entry: mi·nor·i·ty
1 a: the period before attainment of majority b: the state of being a legal minor
2: the smaller in number of two groups constituting a whole; specifically : a group having less than the number of votes necessary for control
3 a: a part of a population differing from others in some characteristics and often subjected to differential treatment b: a member of a minority group
I do believe that trans women and BDSM practitioners are outnumbered by cis women and women who do not practice BDSM in the lesbian community. I also believe, based on this article that both qualify as “a part of a population differing from others . . . and often subjected to differential treatment.” For example, having a policy that specifically exists to target trans women, or campaigning to exclude BDSM practitioners. Defining trans women and BDSM practitioners out of minority status is a rhetorical convenience for someone who is in the majority - is privileged - in both respects. It allows her to set the terms of her distaste while simultaneously claiming that this dispute is on even ground, rather than her trying to wield oppressive power against two groups whom she despises.
She goes on to say that “
The minority and rights-based rhetoric these movements employ is politically powerful. “The idea of sexual minorities has become a powerful one because ‘minorities’ can lay claim to ‘rights.’”
This reminds me of right wing rhetoric about how the homosexual agenda is about getting “special rights.” That is, a kind of rights that apparently the majority doesn’t get. The flaw in this argument is, of course, that the rights minorities seek are to put them on as close to equal footing with the majority as possible. ENDA, for example, doesn’t provide rights to GLBT people that straight people don’t get just because they’re straight - the right to not be fired over who you’re attracted to or your gender identity is something that’s automatic for heteronormative people (except when they present too far outside gender norms, like women not wearing makeup). So, the right to not be fired for not being heteronormative just extends that right to actually lose your job when you suck at it instead of because your boss doesn’t like who you prefer to fuck. Similarly, trans women aren’t seeking a special right in entering MWMF or other trans-exclusive spaces - we seek a right that cis women already receive automatically. As for BDSM, Trinity discusses whether BDSM is oppressed at Let Them Eat Pro-SM Feminist Safe Spaces.
She goes on to say that simply by virtue of being minorities, trans women and BDSM practitioners recast lesbian women who fit into neither group as fitting into patriarchal norms. In other words, her theory - as a feminist - is more important than our lived realities and experiences. And one thing I’ve learned from those feminists who hate us is that their theory must always trump the lives that appear to contradict it. She concludes that “rights rhetoric” is used to emotionally blackmail cis women into supporting these distasteful not-minority minorities, and that when they oppose us, they’re unfairly cast as oppressors.
This is one of the linchpins of bigoted feminism in general - the basic premise that women can never be the oppressor. That because women are oppressed by men, that it is impossible for women to oppress anyone else, that they don’t have the power. Earlier, she complains that pro-trans people and pro-BDSM people criticize Feminist arguments against both groups as “saying that women lack agency.” Of course, the idea that women can’t oppress is saying that - it’s saying that women are too weak to do anything. If you can’t oppress a group with less social capital than your own, what can you do? To be honest, the idea that these cis vanilla women are not oppressing BDSM practitioners or trans women is ludicrous, and smacks of newspeak. They’re trying to redefine the language - the meanings of the words used - to say that what they do is not oppression, while at the same time practicing oppression. They may as well place a sign reading “Freedom is Slavery” and “We have always been at war with Camp Transia” over the entrance gate to MWMF, given how thoroughly they practice this redefinition.
In her next paragraph, she claims that the implied gender and sexual normativity simply doesn’t exist in the lesbian community. Now, to be honest, this implication she’s drawing is based on her own prejudices and issues. She doesn’t realize that acknowledging that trans people and BDSM practitioners are distinct subgroups within the lesbian community does not force anyone to also assume that anyone who’s not trans is also not gender variant - I don’t believe most butch lesbians identify as gender variant so much as they enjoy taking on masculinity, but still see themselves as women. It does not assume that anyone who is not into BDSM is pure vanilla. There’s so many different ways for lesbians to have sex (this link includes NSFW Language) that it’s just plain ludicrous to believe that BDSM practitioners want to define a false dichotomy where you have them and you have lesbians who do it missionary style. But again, the truth here is inconvenient. In order to keep casting Camp Trans and BDSM as enemies, she has to keep piling specious claim upon specious claim, to show how our simple desire to be treated as equals means that we want to redefine and destroy lesbian culture.
She wants her readers to believe that granting that trans women and BDSM practitioners are a minority turns the rest of lesbian culture into one big homogenous block defined as oppressors. Now, I’m sympathetic. As a white person, in the past, I hated it when someone told me that I was racist or that all white people were racist. My conception of myself as a person was that I wasn’t prejudiced and I didn’t do these things. Of course, I was wrong, and I lost one of my best friends because I treated him like crap without really realizing it. I was practicing white supremacy around him, and it really hurt to admit that this was my doing. But the fact is, I had to come to terms with that, to own my own shit and realize that “Yes, I am carrying around internalized white privilege” and to question it and work on it. So I can understand not wanting to be labeled as an oppressor. Ms. Croson actually defines this label further: “. . . [BDSM practioners and trans people] create women solely as oppressors . . .” This is because it is not enough to say that we define women with an unwanted label, but that we erase everything else about these women and simply see them as oppressors. She uses this argument to justify the claim that we do not examine male dominance (although she believes both groups partake fully in male dominance) in relation to women, as well as the minority groups of women who are trans or into BDSM.
The problem with not allowing yourself to be defined as an oppressor is pretty simple: It excuses you from owning your shit. It’s like white people who claim to be “colorblind,” thus denying the reality of race relations and pretending they aren’t racist. It’s a luxury the privileged have - to ignore their own status as oppressors. The cis women who want trans-exclusive space have the luxury - with their cissexual privilege - of denying that there’s any oppression going on here, because it costs them absolutely nothing to do so. On the other hand, I can’t deny the oppression I experience, I can’t afford to. I can’t look at the MWMF trans-exclusive policy and how it’s echoed throughout lesbian and feminist culture, and say “Well, that has no effect on me” because it is aimed directly at me. I don’t have the luxury of believing cis women who not only say that they’re not transphobic, but deny transphobia even exists. Women who openly practice BDSM are in a similar position. They can be ostracized for their “patriarchal sex practices” and do not have the luxury of pretending that all of the lesbian community accepts them, or at least treats them fairly. Lesbians who don’t practice BDSM can believe that, because again it doesn’t cost them anything to deny their own agency and complicity in this oppression.
Next, Ms. Croson discusses “transgression.” One of the red herrings that comes up in discussions about trans people is that transphobic radical feminists will start attacking imaginary transgender political stances. One of those is the idea that trans people run around claiming to transgress gender, that we’re gender rebels out to smash the gender binary. They then criticize us for not actually doing this. It’s immaterial that we don’t run around claiming this, we’re judged for not doing so because, well, radical feminism would like to destroy the gender binary, and they see us as reinforcing it.
She talks about how it’s transgressive for women to choose our own sexuality, to choose sexual roles denied by patriarchal norms. And I do think that the willingness to accept yourself as anywhere on the queer spectrum is transgressive. Modern society hates gay men, hates lesbians, hates bisexuals, really truly for sure hates transgender and transsexual people. When someone who appears to be a man goes through all that effort to become a woman, society punishes us harshly - we lose friends, family, jobs. We sometimes get pushed to the point where we have to engage in survival sex work just to pay the bills and keep the hormones flowing. A trans person is more likely to be murdered than anyone else in America. This is because to society, we are transgressive. The fact that a trans man can grow a beard and be accepted as a man if his trans status isn’t known is just plain outside what many people are willing to accept as valid. But because most of us go from man to woman or woman to man, we’re accused of reinforcing the gender binary, of not transgressing the norms, etc. etc.
The other problem with this is that it conflates our desire to live our lives with political goals. Real lesbians do not declare themselves lesbian to transgress heteronormative society. Real lesbians declare themselves lesbians because we want to live our lives and not suppress who we are. This does affect our politics, but our politics do not drive this. People who practice BDSM do not practice BDSM as a political statement. They do this because that is the kind of sex they enjoy. We do not choose these things to transgress, but society punishes us for doing so because they are transgressions.
The criticism that our personal actions are not political enough, or are the wrong kind of politics, is just a way to demonize our politics. To claim that we’re invested in patriarchy, that we enforce heteronormativity. I do admit, saying that we reinforce patriarchy and heteronormativity simply by virtue of being different from that normative state and claiming minority status is one I don’t see often. “You’re so different you make us look normal!” Yeah, thank you Charlotte for telling us we’re freaks because we’re not like you.
I will continue discussion of this article in a second post.
November 11, 2007 at 9:55 am
And that’s really the core of it - we object to them being mean to us, and that’s bad, and our objections are somehow mean to them - meaning that we don’t have the right to be angry about being misrepresented, demonized, slandered, and libeled. We don’t have the right to stand up and demand that we be treated with respect. Claiming our rights - our human rights - to be treated with respect is a “silencing” tactic.
Hmm. Tactic: Reversal.
The oppressors become the oppressed. Oppressed are mean and angry and attackers when they call out the dynamics of oppression.
Now where oh wherehave I seen this before?!
The other problem with this is that it conflates our desire to live our lives with political goals. Real lesbians do not declare themselves lesbian to transgress heteronormative society. Real lesbians declare themselves lesbians because we want to live our lives and not suppress who we are. . . We do not choose these things to transgress, but society punishes us for doing so because they are transgressions.
I love this. It is so true IMO! The whole political lesbian thing drives me nuts (not in a good way). And, yeah, somehow “deviant” women are — according to these cisgendered feminists — supposed to make political objects of yourselves. Now I’m thinking hey! Isn’t that just another way to not be really human?
PS I personally hate the word “minority” in discussions of power/systems of domination. What do numbers directly have to do with domination and power, really? I mean, white/European people are not the global majority in terms of numbers but we’re sure as hell not an oppressed minority. Domination and numbers are not always the same thing IMO. For that matter, women are a numerical majority I’m pretty sure.
November 11, 2007 at 10:06 am
“Your existence is an attack on me, and is oppressing me.”
that’s what it boils down to.
November 11, 2007 at 2:04 pm
Yeah, I see your point about minority, but I’m not sure what other word to use? Anyway, I don’t think I referred to women as a minority, just trans women and women who practice BDSM as minorities. I’ve heard some feminists refer to women as a minority group, but that’s odd.
I think Nezua calls the reversal tactic “the fallacious flip,” but I think it falls under “oversensitive” too. The constant reframing of the discussion to make it sound like the oppressed are actually somehow at fault, are divisive. Are taking things too seriously, don’t understand that the oppression is for somebody else’s own good.
As for the political lesbian thing, I really want to blog about that, because it is so deeply offensive to me as a lesbian. It treats orientation like a set of clothes you can put on for political expediency, and not something you have to live with every day.
And the political objectification thing is one of the favorite arguments in this stuff. “Your politics are bad - you’re trying to fit into the gender binary. I don’t care about what makes your life worth living, I want you to support my politics without question while I dismiss yours as irrelevant.”
November 11, 2007 at 4:42 pm
I have a serious dislike for people who take their ‘the personal is political’ to mean ‘your personal life has to conform to my politics’. And that kind tends to not really understand why people find this oppressive ….
Or “Your personal life means you are the dancing monkey on display for political reasons.” Model minority shit, you know?
The thing about transgression is one of my ongoing peeves. A lot of people have really weird boundaries and behaviours around social norms. This is why my blog tag has ‘I do all my weird normally and all my normal weirdly’ in it — pretty much all the transgressive shit I do I treat as normal and everyday, and a lot of the bog-standard behaviours are trippily deviant to me. Because that’s what it’s like over here on the alien planet on which I live, y’know?
I have to say, speaking as one of those BDSMers, I like the company I’m lumped in with here a lot more than the lumpers of MWMF. But, y’know, my embrace of those eeeeevil power dynamics has been a major way I’ve defined my own sexuality and thereby grown stronger. Sigh.
November 11, 2007 at 4:52 pm
I actually had to explain what “the personal is political” means to someone elsewhere, because the meaning has been totally lost through the abuse over the decades. It was originally just a way to express how so many women had common experiences and how this was a political thing. It got abused into “Whatever you do personally is my political business.”
As far as transgression goes, the people who whine about how some people don’t transgress enough really don’t understand how dangerous transgression in some ways is. I mean, yes, you can have a political lesbian who embraces her weight and wears a beard* and considers that to be pretty transgressive, and she can even decide that this means she can criticize those of us who are murdered for what we do as “not being transgressive enough” while she never has to deal with the same level of ostracism.
And in fact, she’d deny the ostracism exists.
* Any resemblance between this example and the person who owns “Questioning Transgender Politics” is purely intentional
November 11, 2007 at 6:18 pm
“I actually had to explain what “the personal is political” means to someone elsewhere, because the meaning has been totally lost through the abuse over the decades. It was originally just a way to express how so many women had common experiences and how this was a political thing. It got abused into “Whatever you do personally is my political business.””
Yes, or at least to “Politics means we have a standing warrant to rifle through your brain and throw things away if we don’t like them, because it’s for the greater good.”
November 11, 2007 at 7:01 pm
It’s funny, actually, the whole ‘personal is political’ thing. It’s a phrase that I used to object to quite vehemently, because my basic feeling is that if my personal life is a political thing, then that’s a problem to be fixed, the oppressiveness of the damage of whatever sort needs to be cleared out of my life so personal can be personal. Too much ‘your private life is a matter of constant display for the sake of the Cause’ stuff.
And then I went and read the original ‘personal is political’ essay, and learned that the original meaning of it was pretty much my objection — that these factors that affect people in their private lives aren’t just stuff to be swept under the carpet, trivial factors that aren’t worthy of mentioning, but actual genuine vectors of things people have to deal with that are worthy of political action; in short, that one can’t say that sex, or beauty issues, or abortion (to pick the examples Carol Hanisch used in her intro to the piece in the copy I have) are just ‘private issues’, not politically valid concerns.
November 11, 2007 at 7:06 pm
I had to look it up the first time someone tried to bully me with it. Like, “Your transition is politically wrong because it reinforces the gender binary and the personal is political” type of stuff, and that sounded so awful I just had to see what the hell she meant. And when I did, I wondered how you got here from there.
Also, the other thing that “personal is political” ended up getting misused for was to basically erase the idea that women from different backgrounds had different experiences - you can talk about FGM, or foot-binding, or trafficking and pretend that it applies to all women, or you can ignore the experiences that are too inconvenient for your politics to acknowledge. In other words, it becomes an avenue to appropriation and erasure, rather than an increased understanding.
November 11, 2007 at 8:33 pm
yeah, exactly. UI’m fine with people saying “I think this personal thing was influenced by this other thing” — like, for example, my not being able to admit attraction to femmes, when now I squeeze and grope a very femme crush weekly. :) But I’m not fine with “let’s sit you down and figure out the POLITICS behind this.”
Like, well, I have some very no-no fantasies sometimes even for the sex-pos crowd and people go eee eee eee and I’m just like “wait, what? so I’m supposed to pretend that although power-over turns me on even when things get dark and scary, THIS fantasy is one I’m too enlightened to ever have? Who does that help?”
November 11, 2007 at 8:37 pm
As a matter of fact, there was a thread on the old Ms. Magazine forum where the usual suspects tore into Riki Wilchins’ writing about her own rather dark fantasies. The thing is, the fantasy itself was something you hear from cis women too, but the idea of a trans woman having a fantasy like that means she hates women.
But then, the nature of the fantasy is that anyone who talks about such things will be rather harshly policed, just as you described. For some reason, it’s okay to tell other people what their fantasies should be.
I think that dark fantasies are fine. Having one doesn’t mean hating yourself or hating women or ever wanting to really be in that situation. The whole point of fantasies is that they aren’t real.
November 11, 2007 at 8:54 pm
oh, I bet I know which one that was. The “Crying Game” one, right?
November 11, 2007 at 9:01 pm
Wow, that completely changes the context of what they were saying. I thought they meant an actual, you know, fantasy, not that particular essay. So they were saying that her catharsis was misogynist.
Anyway, yeah. Policing of fantasies: Totally happens all the time, because fantasies matter so much in day to day life when you’re dealing with people.
November 12, 2007 at 12:40 am
oh, I don’t know, I was just guessing. but I figured the bit where she’s cheering Dil on, pull the trigger again, might just upset them just a tad.
November 12, 2007 at 1:02 am
Yeah, I can see that, because when Riki’s talking about all the women who have demeaned her, they put themselves in that group.
November 12, 2007 at 7:43 am
The cis women who want trans-exclusive space have the luxury - with their cissexual privilege - of denying that there’s any oppression going on here, because it costs them absolutely nothing to do so. On the other hand, I can’t deny the oppression I experience, I can’t afford to. I can’t look at the MWMF trans-exclusive policy and how it’s echoed throughout lesbian and feminist culture, and say “Well, that has no effect on me” because it is aimed directly at me. I don’t have the luxury of believing cis women who not only say that they’re not transphobic, but deny transphobia even exists. Women who openly practice BDSM are in a similar position. They can be ostracized for their “patriarchal sex practices” and do not have the luxury of pretending that all of the lesbian community accepts them, or at least treats them fairly. Lesbians who don’t practice BDSM can believe that, because again it doesn’t cost them anything to deny their own agency and complicity in this oppression.
Well I’m thinking maybe I was a bit off-centre describing my previous defence of the WBW boundary as transphobic in another thread here. It might be more accurate to say I was blind to cissexual priviledge - that of the women I was defending a ‘right’ to the space for, though I didn’t feel a desire for it myself , and my own for seeing the space as a defensible ‘right’ for any of us. That’s not to say there’s no transphobia, but this would be an important distinction.
It was my experience on the michfest board that women were very willing to admit to their own white privilege, and to try and be aware of it as much as possible. I’m beginning to see why there’s such resistance to the idea of cissexual privilege ( even the very words ‘cissexual’ or ‘cisgender’ in some cases). Once you admit to it the ‘floodgates’ could open! I’ve heard people say you can’t argue a negative, but I’m wondering if it would be possible to approach the cissexual privilege blind, as opposed to the ‘my belief system that says you shoudn’t exist has more value than your life’ transphobes with the question ‘Why do you think excluding transwomen from women’s space anywhere is not exercising cissexual privilege?’
November 12, 2007 at 10:30 am
Wait, what fantasy of Riki’s was this? *is a bit lost*
November 12, 2007 at 12:01 pm
Have you seen “The Crying Game?” ‘cuz it involves spoilers. just: if you have seen it, let’s just say RW felt some fiercely dark vindication from Dil’s last action toward the IRA agent played by Miranda Richardson.
November 12, 2007 at 1:07 pm
I have seen it. I can’t recall what she did to that agent, though.
November 12, 2007 at 1:23 pm
Yeah, I see your point about minority, but I’m not sure what other word to use? Anyway, I don’t think I referred to women as a minority, just trans women and women who practice BDSM as minorities.
Thinking more about my own reaction re the word minority — I guess I just overall feel like it can sort of change the subject when the subject is power — oppression of some groups and and overempowerment/domination from others. When I posted that comment I was mainly thinking about a poster I’ve seen on the wall of an activist group that has Che Guevara pointing outward at the room saying “YOU are not a minority!” I mean, IMO the reason for oppression and domination is in the power dynamics, not fewer numbers. If there are fewer numbers, than oppressors can use that for sure and it for sure becomes part of the dynamic, but the way I see it it’s not necessary/core.
And it seems to me that one of the ways it can work, when it’s part of the dynamic, is to rhetorically position the “minority” as marginal, less than, to be sacrificed for the good of the “larger group” etc drawing implicitly on white/Western notions of liberal democracy.
But anyway, I wasn’t so much criticizing what you said as expressing my own little inner “eep!” at the word. It’s just my thing — not saying you were wrong to go there.
Other words? I don’t know to me it’s all about the power dynamics. Oppressed group?
November 13, 2007 at 2:09 am
cicely,
I’m primarily speaking about the women who are actively opposed to trans-women exclusion because (however they frame the argument) they don’t really see us as women. Those who hear the reasons like “WBW only space” and the explanations for them and support them aren’t necessarily being transphobes as they support a transphobic policy and possibly even say transphobic things.
I have tried to ask that question - the last time, I kept getting “Why are you calling me a bigot? I’m not a bigot. There’s more to me than a bigoted thing I said, why don’t you treat me as a person who said a bigoted thing instead of just a bigot?” It’s hard to get past the defensive flurry thrown up to protect against that knowledge. Hmm…maybe I should go back to Nezua’s page and dig up his full White Lens article. :)
On minority - okay. In that particular instance, it really does mean numbers + relative power, as trans women aren’t very numerous, and BDSM practitioners are a subset of the fair attendees.
And thank you for the explanation. Also, I do use oppressed group a lot of the time… I think!
November 13, 2007 at 7:46 am
cicely,
I’m primarily speaking about the women who are actively opposed to trans-women exclusion because (however they frame the argument) they don’t really see us as women.
Yeah, I ‘m not trying to shift your focus away from that - and I’m going to print off the part two post to read tomorow.
I have tried to ask that question - the last time, I kept getting “Why are you calling me a bigot? I’m not a bigot. There’s more to me than a bigoted thing I said, why don’t you treat me as a person who said a bigoted thing instead of just a bigot?” It’s hard to get past the defensive flurry thrown up to protect against that knowledge. Hmm…maybe I should go back to Nezua’s page and dig up his full White Lens article. :)
I’ll think about this question - how I would follow it up from my perspective - whatever - some more. What I’m thinking is that If I could map and properly articulate my own shift from ‘this (WBW space) is defensible’ to ‘this is not defensible’, hopefully it will eventually prove useful.
Curious as to what bigoted thing was said and admitted to and whether or not the exchange was one the person might have learned something from - even if on the quiet. Hope so!
November 13, 2007 at 12:26 pm
Oh, she was repeating that trans women were naked in the showers at MWMF, and I was asking her “Why would you believe that? Why do you think that’s true? What experience have you had with trans women that would make this seem like a reasonable occurrence?” and she was all “I’m not a bigot!” which painted the whole conversation.
November 15, 2007 at 11:19 pm
trin: shot her dead, as she was about to kill wossname for fucking up the job. like, a lot.
January 29, 2008 at 11:06 pm
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